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Boatyball #211924
12/20/2019 10:07 AM
12/20/2019 10:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 2
Montréal
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Memphré Online content OP
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Hello evrebody, I am new on this forum an old timer sailor. I notice this morning that the number of Boatyball buoys in Great Harbor went from 5 to 13...
´

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Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #211941
12/20/2019 03:00 PM
12/20/2019 03:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,590
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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It just gets worse!
G

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #211942
12/20/2019 04:07 PM
12/20/2019 04:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,843
VI,GA,AZ
sail445 Offline
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The whole BVI scenario is slowly going to the dogs, but then it has been for the last 20 years regardless of tariffs and corrosive service.
As long as people tip ridiculously when the server ignores them and then kisses up to the server things won’t change.

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #211946
12/20/2019 06:23 PM
12/20/2019 06:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,798
Maine
Breeze Online content
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Sailors who have no issue setting an anchor or two don't need to be concerned with BoatyBall. Might take a couple tries in GH to get a good set, but that extra hour or so on the boat means cheaper beer or boat drinks, and no mooring bill. Make sure your depth finder is calibrated ( and that you know to what it is calibrated).

Always a choice.

Re: Boatyball [Re: Breeze] #211950
12/20/2019 07:34 PM
12/20/2019 07:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,843
VI,GA,AZ
sail445 Offline
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Originally Posted by Breeze
Sailors who have no issue setting an anchor or two don't need to be concerned with BoatyBall. Might take a couple tries in GH to get a good set, but that extra hour or so on the boat means cheaper beer or boat drinks, and no mooring bill. Make sure your depth finder is calibrated ( and that you know to what it is calibrated).

Always a choice.


Not always a choice when the mooring fields are full.
The charter companies don’t supply enough chain averaging about 125’. Most places require two anchors so you can set your boat where it won’t swing into a moored boat.

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #211960
12/21/2019 07:05 AM
12/21/2019 07:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,117
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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We were in great harbor on Jvd yesterday. About half of the balls at great harbor are now boaty balls. People are reserving the white fcfs balls with dinghies kayaks and paddle boards. These white fcfd balls are gone very quickly. By around 4pm around half of the bb were still vacant. Hence anyone arriving late in the day either had to go elsewhere or were forced to use boaty ball. Around 4 or 5 balls were reserved in the hour or so before sunset.


I thought that people were choosing to use boatyball for peace of mind that they would get a ball for the night.

Obviously that's not the case anymore. You want to go to this anchorage, you better arrive earlier or plan on using a red ball as you likely have no choice.

I wonder who owns the boat balls here?

Sopers hole now has some boaty balls.


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 and Lagoon 450, (both part of the Charter Caribe fleet (all inclusive-crewed charters) based in St Thomas USVI https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
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Re: Boatyball [Re: sail445] #211962
12/21/2019 08:06 AM
12/21/2019 08:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,196
Saint Thomas, USVI
CaptainJay Offline
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All of our CYOA boats have 250 feet or more of anchor chain. :-) This also is not an issue in the National Park in St John :-)

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #211972
12/21/2019 10:21 AM
12/21/2019 10:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 270
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My memory may be foggy, but I thought anchoring in the National Parks in St. John was not permitted unless all moorings were occupied.

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #211973
12/21/2019 10:23 AM
12/21/2019 10:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,590
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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I think he means there is no boatyball in the parks and Moorings are usually available at a reasonable price.
G

Re: Boatyball [Re: CaptainJay] #211975
12/21/2019 11:28 AM
12/21/2019 11:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,843
VI,GA,AZ
sail445 Offline
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Originally Posted by CaptainJay

All of our CYOA boats have 250 feet or more of anchor chain. :-) This also is not an issue in the National Park in St John :-)


CYOA has always been one step ahead:-))

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #211995
12/21/2019 02:52 PM
12/21/2019 02:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,590
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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All the Moorings boats should have 230 feet of chain. I have anchored for diving in 80 feet and it held the boat well. The interesting thing is that at greater depths the weight of the chain provides some scope relief. In open water with 15 knots of wind the last 50 feet of the anchor chain was basically on the bottom which surprised me.
G

Re: Boatyball [Re: GeorgeC1] #212009
12/21/2019 04:23 PM
12/21/2019 04:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,843
VI,GA,AZ
sail445 Offline
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Wow, Well I wouldn’t trust it for an overnight in 80’

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212011
12/21/2019 06:57 PM
12/21/2019 06:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 121
NJ USA
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mcevog Offline
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Pretty sure the factory standard fit for a Lagoon 450 is 85meters of chain... so it would be unusual for a Cat of that size to have less than 230/250ft in the locker...

Last edited by mcevog; 12/21/2019 06:58 PM.
Re: Boatyball [Re: sail445] #212013
12/21/2019 07:14 PM
12/21/2019 07:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,590
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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I would not even trust it for a dive except we kept a qualified skipper onboard. Still surprised me so much chain was on the bottom.
G

Re: Boatyball [Re: GeorgeC1] #212016
12/21/2019 08:53 PM
12/21/2019 08:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,843
VI,GA,AZ
sail445 Offline
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Originally Posted by GeorgeC1
I would not even trust it for a dive except we kept a qualified skipper onboard. Still surprised me so much chain was on the bottom.
G

One heck of a lunch hook smile
But back to the crowded mooring fields,in some cases the waters where you can anchor are 40’+- and a second anchor to keep you in one place (Bahamian Moor) is needed.
Boaty Ball suits the owners so they don’t have the hassle to send someone to collect but like most people say there are day boats that want to have lunch or cocktails and move on to another island and this Boatyball restricts it and the restaurants lose more then the cost of a mooring.
Merry Christmas

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212028
12/22/2019 10:00 AM
12/22/2019 10:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,061
USVI
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Not sure that a lot of charter sailors realize what a Bahama Moor looks like.

https://www.sailingtoday.co.uk/practical/set-bahamian-moor/

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212087
12/22/2019 08:32 PM
12/22/2019 08:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Great Harbour, Jost Van Dykes
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Great Harbour, Jost Van Dykes
So i always read the boatyball controversy on this site with interest.

To answer a previous question about great harbour - 10 balls belong to Foxy, 10 balls belong to Rose & John (Cool Breeze Bar & Restaurant) and 10 balls belong to Sherman and Camilla (North Latitude Marina). I believe all have some number of Boatyballs (as of this past week) and David Blyden (Foxy's Taboo) also has about 5.

I've been on both sides-- stuck trying to find a ball and from the side of collecting and/or being asked/called by guests if there is any way to reserve balls.

Is boatyball actually the problem or is the problem that some of the anchorages just need more mooring balls?

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212088
12/22/2019 08:33 PM
12/22/2019 08:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Great Harbour, Jost Van Dykes
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I'm always interested to read the debate on here about boaty ball. I had a private ball in Great Harbour which we labeled with an additional buoys that said private. In seas, almost every time we would take guests out we would return to find someone on the ball. I often had to get in the dinghy and go bar to bar while the captain circled the harbour.

I know the frustration of not getting a ball and have also had to annual field calls from people begging for me to find a way to reserve a ball for them for Old Years Night.

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212094
12/22/2019 11:52 PM
12/22/2019 11:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,117
Ontario, Canada
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The main problem is that there are less fcfs balls. Less choices, people are forced to use boatyball. Boatyball does not solve the problem of not enough balls. It makes the problem far worse.

Last edited by warren460; 12/22/2019 11:52 PM.

Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 and Lagoon 450, (both part of the Charter Caribe fleet (all inclusive-crewed charters) based in St Thomas USVI https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
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Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212117
12/23/2019 02:44 PM
12/23/2019 02:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 630
Washington DC
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bailau Online content
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Agree with my friend Warren...more mooring balls aren't necessarily the answer since the fixed cost on these balls to a business has to be amortized through a 365 day year even when the field isnt fully utilized. More balls also crowd out those who would use a hook and many of these fields are crowded already. In fact on my Feb visit to GH JVD a boat anchored improperly swung around and hit us as we were on a mooring ball.

Boaty Ball is a "cure" that is worse than the disease...

From a business perspective BB are the last balls that most people use as evidenced by the "boatyball hole" when you come to field and see all the FCFS balls full yet the BB ones empty so a business is at a disadvantage to use them when there are FCFS alternatives in a field. I would imagine the goal of Foxys is to drive as many customers in the door so it really doesn't matter at a high level how they get there or what type of ball they are on.




Re: Boatyball [Re: LocalSailor] #212118
12/23/2019 03:02 PM
12/23/2019 03:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,843
VI,GA,AZ
sail445 Offline
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Originally Posted by LocalSailor
Not sure that a lot of charter sailors realize what a Bahama Moor looks like.

https://www.sailingtoday.co.uk/practical/set-bahamian-moor/


For an overnighter you can tie off the kedge anchor to a bow cleat which makes it simpler.

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212123
12/23/2019 05:52 PM
12/23/2019 05:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,798
Maine
Breeze Online content
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Maine
Boaty Ball wants boaters to think that BB is the best and only right choice in a mooring field.

It is a lot like Driver's Ed doesn't want to teach students about Emergency Brakes, or clutch and shift standard transmission cars. There always seems to be an " easier way".

When boaters realize that BB actually reduces their choice, while charging them extra for the privilege of doing so, there will be a light bulb moment.

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212127
12/23/2019 08:14 PM
12/23/2019 08:14 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 173
Rivals, Kentucky
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"Light bulb moment" should have occurred when the first post ever troll named after a lake monster suckered you all in to pissing and moaning about BB in yet another tiresome BB thread.

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212128
12/23/2019 08:15 PM
12/23/2019 08:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 828
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Online content
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I would expect to arrive and find the FCFS balls taken and the Boaty Balls empty! That's why they paid for BB, so they could sail, snorkel, hang out on a beach, whatever and arrive late to find a ball. You wouldn't pay for a BB if you planned to arrive early.

The elephant in the room is the size of the boats in today's fleets. Some mooring fields were laid out when a 40' mono was a BIG boat. Now there cats above 60'. I am most familiar with MC, and I can tell you things can get very interesting when the winds and currents have the monos and cats laying in different directions.

Re: Boatyball [Re: NotquiteCapnRon] #212136
12/24/2019 12:33 AM
12/24/2019 12:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 168
WI. St. Thomas
TomSW Offline
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Pretty good catch on the lake monster name.

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212137
12/24/2019 01:48 AM
12/24/2019 01:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 315
Redmond, WA
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I don't know if Boaty Ball has anything to do with the spacing and layout of the mooring balls, but I do know that we touched another boat on a mooring (40' and 42' cat) for the very first time in 15 trips to the BVI and lots elsewhere. Anegada mooring field.

Re: Boatyball [Re: NotquiteCapnRon] #212146
12/24/2019 09:17 AM
12/24/2019 09:17 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,390
Maryland
Kirk Online content
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Originally Posted by NotquiteCapnRon
"Light bulb moment" should have occurred when the first post ever troll named after a lake monster suckered you all in to pissing and moaning about BB in yet another tiresome BB thread.


I could be mistaken, but I believe thread participation is still optional.


Kirk in Maryland
Re: Boatyball [Re: RatmansWife] #212179
12/24/2019 10:16 PM
12/24/2019 10:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,117
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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Ratmanswife, My point was that all fcfs balls were taken and less than half of the bb were booked.

Anyone arriving late was forced to either leave or use bb.


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 and Lagoon 450, (both part of the Charter Caribe fleet (all inclusive-crewed charters) based in St Thomas USVI https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
A TTOL sponsor
Re: Boatyball [Re: warren460] #212180
12/24/2019 10:36 PM
12/24/2019 10:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 235
Panama City Beach, Florida
xrayman67 Online content
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Originally Posted by warren460
Ratmanswife, My point was that all fcfs balls were taken and less than half of the bb were booked.

Anyone arriving late was forced to either leave or use bb.

Great point!!! So far we've been able to avoid BB. Hope the same this May!

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212248
12/26/2019 09:55 AM
12/26/2019 09:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 25
patterson,ny
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wizoc Online content
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Is anchoring really that much of a lost art? When the FCFS balls are full if people anchored maybe boatyball would slowly disappear.

Re: Boatyball [Re: MrEZgoin] #212249
12/26/2019 11:14 AM
12/26/2019 11:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 828
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Online content
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The oft-repeated solution is for the addition of mooring balls. Of course there is limited suitable space. The mooring field owners need to maximize their revenue from the space available.

One way to do that would be to space the moorings according to the size and type of boats: smaller boats on more closely spaced balls; big ones on balls set further apart. Moorings could be priced accordingly: $25 for a 35' mono; $60 for a big cat.

BoatyBall could facilitate that by showing you moorings appropriate for the boat you are on. This would maximize both the number of moorings and the revenue to the ball owners.

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212253
12/26/2019 12:14 PM
12/26/2019 12:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 630
Washington DC
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bailau Online content
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More mooring balls is not a practical business solution...and my prior point was that the boatyballs were empty all night, not just until someone showed up (i.e. boatyball hole). Given excess supply, FCFS are preferred over BB and the BB owners at a disadvantage relative to the other suppliers of FCFS balls in the field. So BB hurts the maximization of revenue in less than full fields relative to your other players in that field ceteris parabus.

Re: Boatyball [Re: bailau] #212259
12/26/2019 01:36 PM
12/26/2019 01:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 828
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Online content
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BoatyBall doesn't own any balls: they manage reservations for the ball owners, who are the same people who own the fcfs balls.

The owner sends out an attendant to collect the fees in cash, has to track that cash and take it to a bank - on another island - and wait in line for over an hour to deposit it. Or it shows up in his bank account.

The mooring owners choose to associate with BB, and they are in the best position to choose the system that maximizes their financial success.

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212261
12/26/2019 01:40 PM
12/26/2019 01:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 734
road town
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Boaty Ball has come due to the fact that less than 10% of people come in and pay for their moorings, FACT. I am considering using an App, not boatyball for the front 10 balls as no one wants to take a short dinghy ride to pay $30....

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212262
12/26/2019 01:47 PM
12/26/2019 01:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,117
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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We have been spoiled by friendly people coming out to collect the mooring fees.


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 and Lagoon 450, (both part of the Charter Caribe fleet (all inclusive-crewed charters) based in St Thomas USVI https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
A TTOL sponsor
Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212263
12/26/2019 01:56 PM
12/26/2019 01:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 630
Washington DC
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I recognize boatyball doesn't own the mooring balls...when I refer to "owners" I am referring to whomever owns the balls (e.g. Wonky Dog).

The collections and deposit system is truly an issue and probably the "only major issue" recognizing if no one is on your mooring to start with collections issues don't matter.

I think Peter's idea is excellent and solves the direct problem without creating others. I would submit this solution "maximizes their financial success" far greater than a solution that drives boaters to other mooring balls and other owners when those captains have a "choice"

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212266
12/26/2019 02:49 PM
12/26/2019 02:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,015
Charlotte, NC
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NCSailor Offline
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The mooring fields have gotten very crowded with the size of the new cats. After hooking to a mooring at Leverick in March we were only 25’ from the boat behind us. This was a FCFS balls. Uncomfortably close. We had a consistent wind so the boats all stayed in line but I could see a tangled mess on a windless night. This was our first trip down post-Irma. I don’t recall being this close before but we were on a 48’ cat as the result of an upgrade so maybe that had something to do with it.

Re: Boatyball [Re: NCSailor] #212268
12/26/2019 03:45 PM
12/26/2019 03:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 828
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Online content
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NCS, sorry they only upgraded you to a kitten! Now the cats are 58', some of them look to be over 60'. And fat cats, too. Nearly as wide as they are long!

Re: Boatyball [Re: Memphré] #212298
12/27/2019 09:21 AM
12/27/2019 09:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,590
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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The concept of online payment for balls is a good idea. It’s the reservation part that has people upset. Boatyball promised FCFS balls when they announced their plans. When are they coming?
G

Re: Boatyball [Re: GeorgeC1] #212303
12/27/2019 11:14 AM
12/27/2019 11:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,390
Maryland
Kirk Online content
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Originally Posted by GeorgeC1
The concept of online payment for balls is a good idea. It’s the reservation part that has people upset. Boatyball promised FCFS balls when they announced their plans. When are they coming?
G

Wonder why they don't reply....the dude is always logged in here whenever I look in.


Kirk in Maryland
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