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CYOA Helia 44 missing #214686
01/19/2020 11:52 AM
01/19/2020 11:52 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,446
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline OP
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There is a rumor a CYOA Helia 44 went missing in CGB last night. Any details?

Last edited by GeorgeC1; 01/19/2020 02:44 PM.
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Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214687
01/19/2020 11:55 AM
01/19/2020 11:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,385
Maryland
Kirk Offline
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Saw on FB it was found...low on details


Kirk in Maryland
Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214688
01/19/2020 11:58 AM
01/19/2020 11:58 AM
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Which Facebook page?

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214695
01/19/2020 12:56 PM
01/19/2020 12:56 PM
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BaardJ Offline
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It was found floating off the north shore of St Thomas according to CYOA staffer I spoke with.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: TC42] #214697
01/19/2020 01:02 PM
01/19/2020 01:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,385
Maryland
Kirk Offline
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Kirk in Maryland
Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214698
01/19/2020 01:19 PM
01/19/2020 01:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,778
Maine
Breeze Offline
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Originally Posted by GeorgeC1
There is a rumor a CYOA Helia 44 went missing in CDB last night. Any details?


I'm assuming CDB is a typo for CGB, but if not, please tell me. I can't think of a way a vessel could ghost un-manned from CGB to the north shore of St.Thomas.

I'll wait with the rest of us to hear the back-story on this one.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214699
01/19/2020 01:26 PM
01/19/2020 01:26 PM
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GeorgeC1 Offline OP
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I did mean CGB. Not sure why they would be in CGB with the swell. Could have yanked out the sandscrew but I would expect it to get beached in that case.
G

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214700
01/19/2020 01:34 PM
01/19/2020 01:34 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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Something does not sound right. Swell coming in and the boat floats against it over the reef down to STT. Not likely. More like someone stole it and abandoned it off STT.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214701
01/19/2020 01:39 PM
01/19/2020 01:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
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Maine
Breeze Offline
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Thank you George for confirmation. Got to be a story behind this.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: BaardJ] #214705
01/19/2020 02:05 PM
01/19/2020 02:05 PM
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Baardj

Any word on the crew? Safe?

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214707
01/19/2020 02:08 PM
01/19/2020 02:08 PM
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Maryland
Kirk Offline
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The crew was ashore in cgb. They dinked out to find the boat missing.


Kirk in Maryland
Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214715
01/19/2020 02:42 PM
01/19/2020 02:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,733
VI,NY,AZ
sail445 Offline
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There’s always the possibility it disconnected from the mooring and drifted with an outgoing current.
The seas going into CGB have to be able to escape somewhere or the beach would be flooded.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214716
01/19/2020 02:44 PM
01/19/2020 02:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,825
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
JasonHelmbrecht Online content
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Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
Found and recovered. Mooring broke free.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214720
01/19/2020 02:49 PM
01/19/2020 02:49 PM
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Posts: 5,446
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline OP
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This is a lesson on why you don’t want to be on a Mooring with a swell running in shallow water. The swell can bring the boat up tight against the mooring and put tremendous stress on the entire mooring. Repeat a couple of hundred times in the course of a evening and something is bound to fail. Be interesting to know where this mooring failed.
G

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214724
01/19/2020 02:55 PM
01/19/2020 02:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,825
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
JasonHelmbrecht Online content
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Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
Also saw a Sunsail mono break free this morning in CGB. Fortunately they were on board and so were the people on the boat they drifted into. Didn't appear to be any damage and they just dropped the broken mooring and motored out.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214732
01/19/2020 03:22 PM
01/19/2020 03:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,087
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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re the two balls that broke free, we’re either of them fcfs balls?


Warren
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Lagoon 450, (part of the TMM fleet until April, Charter Caribe (all inclusive-crewed) in St Thomas thereafter https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
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Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214736
01/19/2020 03:29 PM
01/19/2020 03:29 PM
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Winds were gusting to 30+ kts last night wirh steady 20+ kts today from 70 degrees (ENE).As long as it didn't get caught up in the reef at CGB entrance, this would have put it on a very quick drift towards north shore of St Thomas. It's 14 nm to Mandahl Bay just south of Hans Lollick. That's my guess where it was headed. Of course the ebb and flood currents through Pillsbury Sound could have pushed it north or south.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: warren460] #214738
01/19/2020 03:32 PM
01/19/2020 03:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,825
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
JasonHelmbrecht Online content
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Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
Originally Posted by warren460
re the two balls that broke free, we’re either of them fcfs balls?

Yes, both.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214743
01/19/2020 03:36 PM
01/19/2020 03:36 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 500
BaardJ Offline
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Serenity is back at CYOA.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214744
01/19/2020 03:44 PM
01/19/2020 03:44 PM
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Posts: 5,446
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GeorgeC1 Offline OP
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Did it drift out the channel and not sustain damage? Very lucky if that was the case. Did the boat clear itself out of the BVI and into the USVI? The above is tongue in cheek but I am stunned people are going into White Bay and CGB in these conditions. This was a well forecast event. No surprises here!
George

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214747
01/19/2020 04:00 PM
01/19/2020 04:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,087
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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Lack of education?


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 450, (part of the TMM fleet until April, Charter Caribe (all inclusive-crewed) in St Thomas thereafter https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
A TTOL sponsor
Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214797
01/19/2020 08:42 PM
01/19/2020 08:42 PM
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Georgia & South Carolina
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Deepcut Offline
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Heard it was a White Ball. (BUT unlikely the ball's fault). Is the crew back on Serenity? Heard there were "at least" 10 others moored there last night.


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (Lagoon 42)
Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214799
01/19/2020 08:50 PM
01/19/2020 08:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,446
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline OP
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Rumor has it the boat was found with the generator, ac and watermaker running.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214813
01/20/2020 08:16 AM
01/20/2020 08:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,825
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
JasonHelmbrecht Online content
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Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
It was on a white ball and there were a decent number of other boats here that night. I just went back to my webcam history and there were 14 boats before the CYOA boat arrived.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214827
01/20/2020 09:41 AM
01/20/2020 09:41 AM
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Georgia & South Carolina
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Deepcut Offline
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OUCH. Did they(15 boats) not see/hear the forecast for huge north swells? I arrived Sunday, but had hear the prediction days before.


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (Lagoon 42)
Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214913
01/20/2020 04:38 PM
01/20/2020 04:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,165
Saint Thomas, USVI
CaptainJay Offline
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I do not want to get into he said she said back on forth on this incident. There are lessons to be learned from this incident. Do yourself a favor and learn from this expensive mistake. I do not want to bash the clients as they fully understand what they did right and wrong in the incident. They accepted full responsibility and paid for the recovery of the vessel.

The takeaways are this. The clients were on a schedule. They planned to be at Cane Garden Bay and pushed how much ground they could cover in the available daylight. Our boats are contractually required to be moored an hour before sunset. The guests pushed this and did not arrive in Cane Garden Bay until a half-hour after sunset. This was the first of two major mistakes that were made. The reason for the stipulation is to give you time in the daylight to get moored or anchored. Then to give you enough daylight to inspect the mooring or set. Given their timeline, this was not possible in the twilight. The second major error made goes back to timing and limited visibility. The mooring they chose was not a normal mooring. It was a private mooring of very questionable construction and condition. This would have been clear in the daylight. It was not at dusk. It failed shortly after they went ashore for dinner. Almost all marine accidents are of a cascading effect. Then somehow the boat drifted through the mooring field without anyone seeing or saying anything. More than one thing usually has to go wrong.

There are lots of other mitigating factors but these two items, coupled with the bad luck of no one noticing the vessel drifting was the root of the incident. One of the challenges for all of us in the industry is to overcome clients' complacency. Overconfidence in one's abilities will sooner or later catch up to you. Fortunately, this case ended with no injuries and only minor damage to the vessel. It was still a very expensive mistake in that the recovery bill was substantial and the client's responsibility due to negligence.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214916
01/20/2020 04:46 PM
01/20/2020 04:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 533
Washington DC
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thanks for very much for the lessons Capt Jay...that is very helpful

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214926
01/20/2020 05:33 PM
01/20/2020 05:33 PM
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GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline OP
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Appreciate the write up. I think however the biggest failure was attempting to go to CDB with that forecast in the first place. Certainly not unique to your client with 15 charter boats in CGB that night. The Moorings 4000 that was slamming around its mooring is a internet star!
George

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214949
01/20/2020 07:15 PM
01/20/2020 07:15 PM
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Sorry, just have to jump in here. When we started sailing in BVI there was no internet, and fewer sailors to give advice. However, there was the "Cruising Guide to the Virgin Islands" by Scott. We devoured this guide, and, among other things, it was very good at naming all of the harbors to avoid when there were Northern Swells. I know a current guide has been published. Does it still include that type of info? We were novices (cc captains before the term was created) and even we could manage with the wealth of knowledge in this book.

We sold our boats (thank you Moorings for many years of sailing) and have returned only once since Irma, and even then I took an older Cruising Guide with us since many navigation aids were still missing at that time.

Isn't there someone on Travel Talk who sells this book? It is currently not available on Amazon. I highly recommend this old fashioned way of learning about new sailing grounds since apparently the newer ways are not all that effective.

Of course we also had Davey Jones on ZBVI radio who in no uncertain terms would tell you when to avoid CGB, Cooper, White Bay etc.

Sorry, to jump in but like many of you I could not believe that there were boats in CGB during this last week.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214951
01/20/2020 07:26 PM
01/20/2020 07:26 PM
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Posts: 5,405
An island state of mind
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You can find it on this site:
http://angelinacat.com/

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #214972
01/20/2020 09:50 PM
01/20/2020 09:50 PM
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I bought the post Irma cruising guide on Amazon. There was something wonky going on in the way I had to order it, but I got it! Our BVI adventure begins on Thursday aboard Arun from Bviyc. Looks like winds have calmed down a bit and looking forward to some smooth sailing.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #215009
01/21/2020 11:15 AM
01/21/2020 11:15 AM
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Still amazing the boat drifted through the mooring field and out the channel without hitting anything.


Capndar
Masters 50 GT Sail/Power/Towing
3rd generation sailor
Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: CaptainJay] #215098
01/21/2020 08:19 PM
01/21/2020 08:19 PM
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Apex, NC
agrimsrud Offline
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Originally Posted by CaptainJay
Our boats are contractually required to be moored an hour before sunset.


In my mind equally important is to allow enough time that one could get to "Plan B" before sunset if "Plan A" doesn't work out for any reason.


Life's short - sail more!
Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: capndar] #215131
01/22/2020 10:48 AM
01/22/2020 10:48 AM
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I'm also amazed that no one noticed the drifting vessel. In my years sailing the BVI we've boarded no fewer than three drifting or dragging vessels. One of them in CGB. Particularly that time of day, we're usually having some drinks, hanging out and watching all the beauty around us.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #215134
01/22/2020 11:30 AM
01/22/2020 11:30 AM
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Posts: 1,008
USVI
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It gets dark early and quickly here, it was reported they arrived after sunset to CGB so it was likely dark when the boat broke free and so it would not have been so obvious that the vessel was adrift to anyone on another vessel. Certainly a stroke of bad luck not to be noticed, but the incredible good luck of not going up on the reef there or any other destructive hazard until it was found is a miracle indeed.

Re: CYOA Helia 44 missing [Re: GeorgeC1] #215136
01/22/2020 11:56 AM
01/22/2020 11:56 AM
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Posts: 722
Memphis, BVI, CT
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"Our boats are contractually required to be moored an hour before sunset."

If only I had a dollar for every boat that came in after dusk! I often sit on the patio counting them (passes for entertainment in the islands). Some of them are owned, not chartered, so they're not subject to the same requirements. But they have a much bigger incentive to be careful.

Attribute it to carelessness, stupidity, ignorance. Paid captains may also be to blame: I have come to believe their behavior is so motivated by tips that they will do almost anything.


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