Ditto - Where's Glen when you need him.

All this dialogue and no one ever asked if the offender? had an explanation or even a story.

This is pretty one sided without their input.

I'm assuming all here have extensive sailing experience and if that is so you all know that a mistake only takes an instant to happen, sometimes with disastrous results.

Now Benny, we just love to engage in rash speculation!

It's for the same reason that the press stays up half the night trying to call the Presidential Election, when they could all just hit the hay and get the results the next morning. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

...I was wondering when this would get interesting...back in the day...1986...it was a part of every conversation at the Bridge bar in ramada yacht haven.. As in Been sailing around here long? Yep ...hit Johnson reef yet? Nope. Well, not very long then...

My mind automatically went into a Maine accent!

"If you haven't been aground, you haven't been around" was the saying I've heard. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

We would just about always run aground sailing in the Potomac River.

Sail until the centerboard hits and then tack. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Laugh.gif" alt="" /> If we got stuck, we'd crank it up!

In the Caribbean, not once in 30 years.

I'm knocking on wood at this very moment. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Blush.gif" alt="" />

Not for one minute do I think I am immune... but maybe that's why I've had such a long streak of not grounding out.

I'm a big chicken with somebody else's very expensive boat.

I recall being told in a briefing at VIP years ago that departing Compass Point marina with a deep draft Hylas we should expect to "touch the sand" on the way out. We did; but, fortunately, there was no further "touching" for the remainder of the charter. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

Recently we ran aground briefly with my wife at the helm, going where I told her to go. She kept apologizing, and finally I told her "I'm proud of you, now you are a real boater..."

I recall one of the ASA books stating that there are two types of sailors; one type has run aground and other type just hasn't yet.

I've seen their Hylas get drug in and out a few times with dinghy towboats and VIP employees at the helm. It's nice of them to dredge for the rest of us. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

Back in 93 I had just bought an old wooden boat and took pay dad for a sail to white bay from red hook. My dad was an old salt, two circumnavigation s, a lot of water under his feet,
And he was enjoying a boat ride with his thirty something kid. I sailed into Ivan's cut in white bay and headed west and dad was like "you sure this boat can do this?" and I'm like "oh yeah, I know white bay like the back
Of my hand " just before we bounce along the bottom for about twenty yards, and then sail out down by the Soggy Dollar.
That is when I finally learned that the 'back of hand' isn't the palm with all those neat lines, but the other side, with the hair on it. And that 3 inches of draft over the last boat really does make a difference in white bay.
The old man was really quite diplomatic about the whole thing, never told a soul.

My ASA instructor said it a little bit differently - "there are those that have run aground and then there are those that lie"

Since we're doing true confessions: During my 1st BVI bareboat charter many years ago, I forgot to shorten the dinghy painter going into Cam Bay, wrapped the prop, stalled the engine, and drifted sideways to the sandy beach. I'm not sure if this really constituted a grounding, since the keel was just resting against the sloping sand in still water, but I suppose it technically was a grounding. I had to dive and cut the painter in the middle to free it from the prop, then we pulled ourselves off using the dink to set two anchors. I tied the painter back together and simply told Sunsail, when we returned the boat, "The painter is shorter than it was." They looked at it, said "Yeah, we'll replace it," and asked no further questions! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

What were they thinking?

Roger that! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Groovin.gif" alt="" />

What were you thinking? Wrapping the dinghy painter on the prop sometimes will break a motor mount and even bend the shaft. Always be straight with the charter company when you return your boat. If nothing else, you're not being fair to the next charterer, who inherits your problem, and may lose a day of their vacation. How would you feel if that was you?

If this particular coral is so important, endangered and rare that criminal charges need to be filed against someone who accidentally damages it, they might want to use more than a few yellow markers to protect it! I can see the day coming when a person goes to prison in the USA for " environmental terrorism ". Dam coral murderers!!!!

Get off your high horse. If I wrap the painter on the prop, cut it off and there is no vibration under way with engine on then why would I report the so called problem? This is boating, things happen. If I damage the boat I will tell the owner. If I screw up a bit with no damage I don't need to spill my guts.

The dangers of dinghy painter prop-wraps aren't to be underestimated, this past season a charter Beneteau came very close to sinking due to what at first seemed a minor prop-wrap.


Grand Case Prop-Wap

Sorry to be on my high horse. I guess my concern is how many people are unaware of the damage they have done.

That epoxy putty is good sh*t! Always keep it aboard our boat.

I must admit I wrapped a dink painter, as did my father before me. It is one of those lessons you never forget. Someone suggested putting the painter through a fun noodle, although I bring the dink fully abeam before I anchor, dock, or moor.

It's okay, all. My adventure happened at about idle speed, early in our charter. No leaks, no vibration in the aftermath. I do try to be thoughtful.

Sorry to disagree with many here but I do NOT think that this reef is well marked at all! They can and should do better so as to protect the reef. No one wants to run into a reef and I've always been surprised that at how it is marked. It should be marked so that in inclement weather and in calm weather (I have often seen it without any breaking water) the markers are well visible. By the way we live in the USVI on our sailboat so we are not casual or inexperienced boaters.

My chart shows an orange/white buoy, 4 yellow buoys, a lit green buoy, and a lit yellow buoy to the north. If you see a buoy through your binoculars (you do have them, right?) and you don't reference them on your chart (you do carry a chart, right?) then you deserve to run aground. This is well marked in my experience.

I agree, I think its adequately marked and since you should be looking at a chart, shouldn't be difficult to avoid.

It's not foolproof, but unlike in the rest of society (where we have to have labels for a bus exhaust stating its hot!) the only way to fool proof boating is to keep the fools off the water!

Hello?

People make mistakes. Qualified or not, things happen. How and why do people here love to overstate their own qualifications, while belittling anyone that has a mishap?

Sailing a few weeks in the summer, and a week or two, each or every other winter, in the world's mellowest waters don't make any of us qualified to judge how someone ended up on the reef.

Look at the incident and learn from it. Anything else is worthless chatter.

That is why you are supposed to have a paper chart, know how to use it and actually use it. If you do not, it is only a matter of time before you slam the boat aground. The GPS toys, that so many play like a video game are a major factor here.

Not paying attention and loss of situational awareness are major issues on the water and more so in the air.

I started this thread over a month ago with the article from the STJ paper and a small diagram so " casual or inexperienced boaters" might get a heads up awareness before sailing this side of STJ and also because of the many posts from sailors of all levels who are familiar with the BVI that ask about clearing in to Cruz Bay from the BVI - anytime some one is sailing in waters that are new to them all information - from forums like this, paper charts, cruising guides,radar, GPS, depthsounders,vigilant visual observation and local lore can only help them enjoy a safe trip and visiting new cruising areas.

Thanks Local!

In the summer of 1980 I was a QM2 aboard the USCGC Sagebrush (WLB-399) out of San Juan, PR. The USVI was part of our OP-AREA and both Johnson Reef '1JR' and Johnson Reef 'JC' were maintained by the Sagebrush. During our ATON run I was detailed to do position checks on both of these buoys. Prior to departure I provided a navigation brief to the coxswain and the boat crew; after the brief I gave the coxswain, a BM3, a corrected 25641 chart sealed in a clear plastic bag for reference. Shortly there-after the Sagebrush launched our motor cargo boat 'SAG 1' in the Windward Passage and we were en route to Johnson Reef. Upon arrival at the north side of '1JR' the boat crewman tied the boat off to the buoy and I climbed up to the top of it with a boxed USN Mark II sextant in my backpack and strapped myself to the buoy and unloaded the sextant. I took four rounds of angles repacked the sextant and returned to the boat. I wedged myself onto the deck in the bow and transcribed the angles I recorded onto the positioning record form. Within a minute, the boat crew man took in the mooring line and we were drifting with the engine at idle, waves lapping at the hull, suddenly the coxswain gunned the engine and I yelled up to him 'hey this is a big reef, which way are you going?' Within seconds, the banging and scrapping noise was deafening - we were hard aground on Johnson Reef. The coxswain shutdown the engine, the boat crew man and boat engineer checked for any breech on the hull. I secured my gear and asked the coxswain for the chart - said he left it on the Sagebrush. I knew we needed an inspection of the exterior of the hull and an assessment of how we could get free; I put on my mask and snorkel and went over the side in my blues and low cuts. We were aground in a field of elk horn coral - the hull was deeply scored from the reef and coral, but the rudder and prop were not damaged so we waited for about 90 minutes for high tide (all of about a foot) and I was able to guide the boat out to deeper water. The coxswain tried to explain the grounding away by saying he was making a 'beeline' for 'JC' - and that he did not have chart to guide him...

The coxswains carelessness, lack of preparation and mindset that he didn't need any charts and markers to show him the way to the objective had very high costs.

(My) Moral - just because you're USCG certified coxswain doesn't mean you're qualified to handle the boat, until proven otherwise I view everyone as a "CCC" because they are everywhere.

REF: U.S. Coast Pilot 5, Chapter 14: Johnson Reef, a coral formation 0.4 mile NE of Perkins Cay, is 500 yards long and over 0.2 mile wide; it breaks except in very smooth weather. A ledge, over which is a 20-foot passage, connects this reef with the mainland to the SE. The reef is marked by a lighted buoy at its N end and by an unlighted buoy at its S end.

REF: http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/25641.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCGC_Sagebrush_(WLB-399)
https://www.uscg.mil/history/webcutters/sagebrush1944.asp
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Categ...h_(WLB-399).jpg
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjI2WDcyMA==/z/OUgAAOSwWTRWzxAu/$_57.jpg

Thanks for the story oldCGQM and welcome to TTOL! The reef is very clearly marked, but we still cats and power boats inside the Johnson Reef markers pretty routinely. In early November we saw a small private power boat crossing the reef at speed in calm conditions. We stay outside and avoide the inside passage unless we are going to (rarely) Trunk Bay.

Cheers, RickG

HaHa! Now there's a blast from the past! The Bridge Bar was the absolute best...all sailors and lots of shaggy dog stories and sailor lies. Gosh, I miss that place.

But no. We all knew about Johnson's Reef, even before it was marked. And if one were to hit it...one would be an idiot. We all had charts and local knowledge.

Here is the reality of Johnson's Reef and the heavily traveled waters around Johnson's Reef. When the sea is calm, the light conditions poor(or just right) it can be hard to notice for some helmsmen. Johnson's Reef is one situation where using a real chart and dead reckoning will keep you safe. Without a proper chart the sailor new to area can easily get confused along the shore of St. John with the thinking safe deep water is to the north away from the sand and beach. In the some light or weather conditions Johnson's Reef can be deceiving from any direction to the skipper without a chart and and poor situational awareness. Sure a chart plotter may help, a chart plotter that is zoomed in to the incorrect level can lead to disaster. My point in the right conditions you cannot miss Johnson's Reef and only an "idiot" would end up on it. In the wrong conditions a boat not using a proper chart can end up in disaster on Johnson's Reef. Here is a picture that shows dangerous Johnson's Reef and the deep water all around it. Someone in each crew should be always be tasked to maintain situational awareness with an actual chart. That person should not be the person with his or her hands driving and maintaining the lookout.

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000CusTgpWOWbg/s/860/860/Aerial-IMG-5475.jpg

What that does translate to. In many cases on the charter boats. The skipper should be delegating the steering to others while the most senior person on the boat provides greater focus on the navigation and safe passage. The moment there is any doubt where you are? Or "what is that mark for"? The vessel should stop until the situation is determined.

Nice photo StormJib...

I am glad to report that passing through the area several times I did NOT hit Johnson's Reef!

Ok, but isn't this true of almost all reefs? Use a chart, know where you are, etc? I sailed from the BVI to St John in 1990 using a wrinkled old chart that came with the boat. It showed Johnson's reef. We sailed around it. end of story.

So very true. Unless you are accustomed to navigating on waters without reefs and obstructions. There are many lakes and coastal communities where if you are just careful adjacent to the shore you are fine. In fact in most cases in the BVI you will be fine once you maneuver away from shore. One place even large crewed yachts have found themselves in trouble would be the area north of Beef Island. There are several spots where the marks are of little value without a proper chart and situational awareness. A wrinkled chart is great. A chart in a tube somewhere on the boat not so much.