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Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? #281113
04/27/2022 02:19 PM
04/27/2022 02:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 98
Houston, TX
Matt W Offline OP
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Report from a FB group that someone witnessed a Sunsail cat aground/sinking off the SE side of Dead Chest Island. Said they saw it this morning when they woke up. Visar was on scene and apparently no one was aboard.

Anyone else have any other details?

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Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281114
04/27/2022 02:24 PM
04/27/2022 02:24 PM
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Posts: 98
Houston, TX
Matt W Offline OP
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Could be the Pneuma, Lagoon 46

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281125
04/27/2022 06:40 PM
04/27/2022 06:40 PM
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GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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There are not really any hidden obstacles in that area. Hard to understand what they might have hit. Perhaps poorly anchored in Deadman’s bay or broke off a NPS ball in the area.
G

Last edited by GeorgeC1; 04/27/2022 06:42 PM.
Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281135
04/28/2022 05:31 AM
04/28/2022 05:31 AM
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Vermont, USA
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We sailed by there yesterday and did notice a grounded boat with two powerboats nearby. Looked to be on the N to NE shore. Wind was NNE 18-20. Did not get close enough to see details but I imagine was challenging to get in there.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281162
04/28/2022 09:38 AM
04/28/2022 09:38 AM
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Redmond, WA
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We were just passing Peter Island and saw the boat being towed out of Great Harbor with the port hull supported by float bags. I got some pictures 😢


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Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: MrEZgoin] #281387
04/30/2022 06:36 AM
04/30/2022 06:36 AM
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Bay Area
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Apparently the Sunsail boat was at Cooper and somehow became un-moored while crew was ashore. They reported the boat stolen and stayed the night ashore. It drifted to Deadman's bay and grounded. Got this from Moorings staff.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281390
04/30/2022 07:04 AM
04/30/2022 07:04 AM
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You would have thought they might have asked for help and looked for it! I had a interesting experience once at Sandy Isle where a powercat pulled up next to us and dropped about 12 feet of chain out in 8 feet of water. They jumped in the dinghy and went ashore to hike the island. Took about 2 minutes for the 15knot wind to start moving the boat. Once the water got to 12 feet it took off! Surprising how fast a boat will drift. We jumped in the dinghy and retrieved it. While we were anchoring it properly they came back from their hike and starting screaming like lunatics about us stealing their boat!
G

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281391
04/30/2022 07:10 AM
04/30/2022 07:10 AM
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Don't these boats have chips in them so they can be located with GPS?

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281394
04/30/2022 07:23 AM
04/30/2022 07:23 AM
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Somehow came unmoored - sounds like pretty negligent behavior unless the mooring ball was damaged or they tried to anchor outside the field and we all know most charter boats don’t have enough chain for properly doing so. (Again, negligent). Reporting it stolen is ridiculous.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: MIDiver] #281397
04/30/2022 07:34 AM
04/30/2022 07:34 AM
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Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin Offline
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Originally Posted by MIDiver
Somehow came unmoored - sounds like pretty negligent behavior unless the mooring ball was damaged or they tried to anchor outside the field and we all know most charter boats don’t have enough chain for properly doing so. (Again, negligent). Reporting it stolen is ridiculous.


If any part of the mooring ball had failed that should have been obvious when they engaged CBIC staff.


M4000 "Lio Kai"
Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281399
04/30/2022 07:39 AM
04/30/2022 07:39 AM
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Wonder why they didn’t look for the boat - CIBC has vessels - unless of course it was dark before they “noticed” the boat was gone.

What would Moorings/Sunsail do in a situation like this - charge the charter group for damages incurred in grounding?

Last edited by MIDiver; 04/30/2022 07:43 AM.
Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Husker] #281408
04/30/2022 08:14 AM
04/30/2022 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Husker
Apparently the Sunsail boat was at Cooper and somehow became un-moored while crew was ashore. They reported the boat stolen and stayed the night ashore. It drifted to Deadman's bay and grounded. Got this from Moorings staff.


Maybe its just me but I am constantly looking over at my boat while on land...maybe more than I checked on the kids when they were little. Surprising at Cooper where there isn't far to go. I guess i could set a remote anchor watch but not that paranoid (yet).

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281434
04/30/2022 11:25 AM
04/30/2022 11:25 AM
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Houston, TX
Matt W Offline OP
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Agree, my first thought wouldn't have been that it was stolen. Surprised a search wasn't organized - I would have gotten on the hook with Cooper, VISAR, Sunsail, channel 16, etc and let them know the boat was adrift. Should have had lights on and easy to tell which way it was going with the wind/current. Dead Chest only ~ 3 miles away. Decent chance of recovery IMO unless they were shutting down the bar.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281446
04/30/2022 02:38 PM
04/30/2022 02:38 PM
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The surprising part is no one noticed it leaving.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281450
04/30/2022 03:42 PM
04/30/2022 03:42 PM
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I had the same thought George. It must have been later in the evening and they must have been on an outer ball.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: RatmansWife] #281508
05/02/2022 08:29 AM
05/02/2022 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by RatmansWife
Don't these boats have chips in them so they can be located with GPS?


AIS would be an easy way to track the charter boats. Not sure the charter fleets have AIS transmit capability.
VHF radio would need to be turned on for this to work. Anyone could track the boats location.

"Automatic Identification System (AIS) is a system that provides real-time information such as tracking and monitoring for ships and other marine vessels designed to improve maritime safety. This system is comprised of transponders fitted into your boat that use short wave VHF radio signals to broadcast the vessel’s position. "


Chuck W.
[Linked Image]
Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281509
05/02/2022 08:42 AM
05/02/2022 08:42 AM
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Houston, TX
Matt W Offline OP
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Aftermath

Attached Files 279585989_10226538393463958_2405398833709204272_n.jpg
Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281511
05/02/2022 08:55 AM
05/02/2022 08:55 AM
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Holy hell. If I were responsible for that catastrophe I would never want to show my face in the BVI again.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: cwoody] #281512
05/02/2022 08:56 AM
05/02/2022 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by cwoody
Originally Posted by RatmansWife
Don't these boats have chips in them so they can be located with GPS?


AIS would be an easy way to track the charter boats. Not sure the charter fleets have AIS transmit capability.
VHF radio would need to be turned on for this to work. Anyone could track the boats location.

"Automatic Identification System (AIS) is a system that provides real-time information such as tracking and monitoring for ships and other marine vessels designed to improve maritime safety. This system is comprised of transponders fitted into your boat that use short wave VHF radio signals to broadcast the vessel’s position. "
A $20 device, like this https://www.amazon.com/Tracker-Vehicles-Magnetic-Tracking-Location/dp/B09TGM47SB will do the job. I put one on my boat (cost more like $120 back then). Worked perfectly. Still didn't stop a bunch of a******* from dropping anchor in Great Harbour JVD, going ashore, and letting the boat drift ashore. Did mean I could prove they did it though busted


Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: MIDiver] #281513
05/02/2022 09:08 AM
05/02/2022 09:08 AM
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Pittsboro, NC, USA
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The question is, is there a list of charterers kept by the charter companies of people not to bareboat charter out to? Like a too irresponsible or too dumb or just not qualified list? Seems like a prudent measure.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: CarolinaSailor] #281517
05/02/2022 10:06 AM
05/02/2022 10:06 AM
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California
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The "do not rent" lists at the rental car companies are brutal!

Since many of the companies are related --(Enterprise/Alamo/National) you could be "sol" if you need to rent a car since they share information.

Might behoove the charter companies to have an association in the BVI to protect themselves from this sort of mishap??

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Sunnykm] #281518
05/02/2022 10:26 AM
05/02/2022 10:26 AM
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Redmond, WA
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Originally Posted by Sunnykm
The "do not rent" lists at the rental car companies are brutal!

Since many of the companies are related --(Enterprise/Alamo/National) you could be "sol" if you need to rent a car since they share information.

Might behoove the charter companies to have an association in the BVI to protect themselves from this sort of mishap??






Great idea. I would like to submit the idiot who ran my boat onto Colquhoun blaming it on lack of programmed waypoints and curtains at the helm.


M4000 "Lio Kai"
Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281519
05/02/2022 10:58 AM
05/02/2022 10:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,647
An island state of mind
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Can you imagine waking up to that email with picture?

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281522
05/02/2022 01:09 PM
05/02/2022 01:09 PM
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Only 2.7nm from Cooper to Dead Chest - probably took less than 2 hrs to drift there with a 10~15 kt breeze and the usual E->W current. Charterers were probably still waiting for their dinner main course by that point.

Can BoatyBall confirm that their mooring and pennant did not fail?

If the mooring didn't fail, I've got to believe the charterer only ran one mooring line from the bow to the pennant eye and back, and this line was either sawed through by the pennant eye as the boat swung or the charterer tied a very lousy cleat hitch.

If they had run the recommended two independent mooring lines from each bow to the pennant eye, there is minimal chafe at the pennant eye so it would have taken two lousy cleat hitches to both fail. I'm sure Sunsail confirmed the configuration of the mooring line(s) when the boat was discovered.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281525
05/02/2022 07:00 PM
05/02/2022 07:00 PM
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It is a very scary situation.

BoatyBall can confirm that the boat was on a first come first serve mooring the night before at Cooper. The boat did not pay for the mooring through the BoatyBall application. They paid Cooper Island Beach Club directly. Management at Cooper Island Beach Club confirmed the next morning that there was no damage to the mooring ball equipment that the boat was tied up to.

Please be safe out there!

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: BoatyBall] #281526
05/02/2022 07:04 PM
05/02/2022 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BoatyBall
It is a very scary situation.

BoatyBall can confirm that the boat was on a first come first serve mooring the night before at Cooper. The boat did not pay for the mooring through the BoatyBall application. They paid Cooper Island Beach Club directly. Management at Cooper Island Beach Club confirmed the next morning that there was no damage to the mooring ball equipment that the boat was tied up to.

Please be safe out there!



Very interesting.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: BoatyBall] #281532
05/02/2022 08:32 PM
05/02/2022 08:32 PM
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Hobie Sound
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Moot Point anyway. The Master in Command is always in total responsibility to properly secure the hull and maintain an adequate full time watch for the conditions and safety of the hull, cargo, passengers, and any of other property. The captain is fully liable here for failure to secure the vessel and complete failure to maintain an adequate watch for the conditions. Proof: "I have no idea what happened.. I guess someone stole the boat under my command". Full Liability would fall to the master in charge then the owner of the hull. 1.) Failure to secure the vessel. 2.) Failure to maintain a proper watch. Always read the contract from your underwriter.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: PA_Ron] #281534
05/02/2022 08:56 PM
05/02/2022 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by PA_Ron
Moot Point anyway. The Master in Command is always in total responsibility to properly secure the hull and maintain an adequate full time watch for the conditions and safety of the hull, cargo, passengers, and any of other property. The captain is fully liable here for failure to secure the vessel and complete failure to maintain an adequate watch for the conditions. Proof: "I have no idea what happened.. I guess someone stole the boat under my command". Full Liability would fall to the master in charge then the owner of the hull. 1.) Failure to secure the vessel. 2.) Failure to maintain a proper watch. Always read the contract from your underwriter.


So are you saying that a boat with no crew in an approved mooring field in normal conditions needs to keep a watch?

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281536
05/02/2022 09:29 PM
05/02/2022 09:29 PM
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What responsibility does the charter company have to vet the charterers?

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: bailau] #281538
05/02/2022 09:39 PM
05/02/2022 09:39 PM
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Hobie Sound
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The owner and master both have a responsibility to properly secure the vessel. In this case the vessel was not properly secured. Failure of basic duty #1. The owner and master have the responsibility to maintain an adequate watch for the condition no matter where the boat is. Marina, At Sea, or in a "Approved Mooring Field". The location does not change the responsibility or duties to maintain an adequate watch for the conditions. The boat was in at best a partially protected location where the hull could float away into the open sea poorly secured to a single fitting. The hull that was not properly secured and somehow slipped its moorings and was damaged. Likely marine life and environment suffered damage. The owner and captain are clearly guilty and liable for both failure to properly secure the vessel and the complete failure to maintain an adequate watch for the conditions. All liability for any and all damages rests with the master in command and the owner. “Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper lookout by sight and hearing as well by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.” In case the hull was involved in a collision and suffered major damage. The responsibility lies with the person in charge and the owner for multiple failures including failure to make a a full appraisal of the situation. The boat drifted off an no one in the chain of command noticed or took adequate action to protect from and mitigate any potential damage.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281539
05/02/2022 10:42 PM
05/02/2022 10:42 PM
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PLUS no lights

What light are shown by a vessel not under command?
A vessel not under command, sometimes knows as a NUC vessel, shall according to Rule 27(a) exhibit: two all-round red lights in a vertical line where they can best be seen

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281546
05/03/2022 05:43 AM
05/03/2022 05:43 AM
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Vermont, USA
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If there is one knot I went over with my crew before and during the trip it was the Cleat Hitch.

Last thing I did before leaving the boat or going to sleep was take a walk up front and double check everything.

Normal I know, but apparently not for everyone.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281547
05/03/2022 06:36 AM
05/03/2022 06:36 AM
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Boats I have seen come off balls generally were tied with a single line that sawed through the loop or the line itself. I don’t know the weather that night at Cooper however it’s not generally a place where you get the kind of winds that could cause that. I cringe whenever I see the single line technique. I also try and anchor when the winds are going to exceed 20 knots overnight. I have seen to many ball failures including personal experience.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: GeorgeC1] #281548
05/03/2022 06:46 AM
05/03/2022 06:46 AM
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Vermont, USA
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We were at Privateer that night and the wind did shift around from ENE to NNE around 16-18.

Have not experienced sawing through the line but then again I have never used a single line on a ball. smile

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281551
05/03/2022 07:29 AM
05/03/2022 07:29 AM
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Has anyone found a good anchor app that accurately monitors the boat? I have Anchor and Anchor Pro, but either I am struggling with proper placement of the anchor location (to accommodate for wind changes and swing) or GPS accuracy is inconsistent. I have had multiple false alarms during the night that obviously freak us out. I need to study up more to confirm that it’s not user error, but if you’ve had the same experience and have found a more accurate app, please share.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281553
05/03/2022 07:48 AM
05/03/2022 07:48 AM
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Houston, TX
Matt W Offline OP
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Not an anchor alarm, but something like the Garmin inReach would allow you to monitor the boat's position while you are ashore if you can't maintain eyes on it or a proper watch. Can share the tracking link with anyone. Ping's satellites for position every 10 minutes, and it has plenty of battery life. Just need wifi/cell service on your cell phone. Device is ~$350 and you can pay $15/month for the service. Believe there is a more expensive plan to ping more frequently, every 2 minutes. Also has SOS and texting features.

There may be a more appropriate marine-type device that does something similar, I'm just not familiar with it. Concept would be the same. If the captain of the Sunsail cat were checking the tracking app every so often, they would have seen the boat adrift and could have taken action to organize a recovery.

We just used the inReach for a backcountry trip in the Grand Canyon and it worked great. Friends/family had fun tracking our progress.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281564
05/03/2022 08:32 AM
05/03/2022 08:32 AM
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It is a real stretch of the COLREGS to need a watch on a boat this size at a marina or in a designated mooring area. Properly securing your boat is obvious here. I would enjoy seeing a rule or case law that my personal boat properly secured in its marina needs a watch. Although the COLREGS rule quoted above (#5) doesn't specify "underway" I don't think it applies to a marina situation.

A vessel in a mooring area according to COLREGS is not a vessel "not under command". I guess technically when it left its mooring for a joy ride it could be considered NUC.

In fact because the boat this size is in a designated mooring area/anchor area it actually doesn't need any lighting. In practice I have many lights lit at night in the BVI when moored or anchored regardless of location.

And I do have an anchor watch on at all times when moored or anchored

All IMHO

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: steve74] #281566
05/03/2022 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by steve74
Has anyone found a good anchor app that accurately monitors the boat? I have Anchor and Anchor Pro, but either I am struggling with proper placement of the anchor location (to accommodate for wind changes and swing) or GPS accuracy is inconsistent. I have had multiple false alarms during the night that obviously freak us out. I need to study up more to confirm that it’s not user error, but if you’ve had the same experience and have found a more accurate app, please share.

I use Anchor Pro . You may need to increase the distance for GPS accuracy if that is what is alarming(set alarm noise different for GPS accuracy). Try to set anchor as soon as deploying, ideally from bow, but Late Set works nice as well. (This does not help when you leave boat and go ashore, as it is not tracking boat, but obviously tracking your phone).

Also you can see track on the map on phone. When Anchored, I leave chart plotter on (dimmed) with tracker on so that you can readily tell if you are swinging and/or dragging.


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (2022 Lagoon 46)
www.BareBoatBVI.com

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281582
05/03/2022 12:23 PM
05/03/2022 12:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 100
Chesapeake Bay, USA
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Nibj Offline
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Nibj  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 100
Chesapeake Bay, USA
Our FloatHub will monitor position using its own GPS and I can access it online. But of course you need a WiFi or cell phone connection. Would be practical in a limited area like the BVI and is cheap.

Re: Sunsail cat aground at Dead Chest Island? [Re: Matt W] #281584
05/03/2022 12:38 PM
05/03/2022 12:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,228
Washington DC
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bailau Offline
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bailau  Offline
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I use Anchor Pro as well...

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