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Club O Has A Beach Problem #60526
07/05/2015 01:00 AM
07/05/2015 01:00 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 83
East Central Florida
M
Marcheall Offline OP
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Marcheall  Offline OP
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M
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 83
East Central Florida
The beach in front of Papagayo no longer exists. For years, there was lots of sandy beach in front of Papagayo. Even after adding the "outside area" to the restaurant, there was plenty of room for two rows of chairs and umbrellas in between Papagayo and the water. I don't remember what year, but the beach started getting smaller and smaller. It didn't "come and go". It was only "go" for a few years, until three years ago the sand was all gone and the water was splashing up against the structure of the restaurant.

A couple of years ago Club O put some rocks and boulders in front of Papagayo to try and protect the building. But the sand never came back and the water continued to be right up against the structure. This year Club O built a "seawall" about 20 feet in front of Papagayo. There is even 10 feet (or so) of sand that you can walk on in between the restaurant and the seawall. The seawall seems to be doing its job, and Papagayo appears to be well protected from the ocean.

But here's the problem....the sand just to the north (towards The Perch) of the new seawall is now eroding away at an alarming rate. It has to be because of the new seawall. We were there in mid June and saw three feet of sand taken away during our stay. Two of the posts from the fence that separates the beach from the resort were washed away during that time. The second Chalet in from Papagayo is unit # 47. Four or five years ago there was 40-50 feet of sand in between the porch of #47 and the beach. In mid June there was no more than 15 feet of sand in between that same porch and the water. The "seawall" seems to forcing the water into this area. Not only could #47 be in danger, but that whole section of beach could be in trouble.

I'm hoping we can get updates on this situation from people who see this for themselves over the next few months. What is the current situation and what (if anything) is Club O attempting to do about it?

SXM Sponsors
Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Marcheall] #60527
07/05/2015 01:57 AM
07/05/2015 01:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,875
Boynton Beach, FL
EdB Offline
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EdB  Offline
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Boynton Beach, FL
The beaches all over the island come and go. It's the same with Maho...some times there is a huge beach...other times it is just rocks. It's mother nature doing what mother nature does. There probably is nothing that Club O can do to change the way the ocean currents are. I've been going to the island for around 25 years now...and have seen huge beach at Orient...and other times it can be hard to put one row of chairs at points.

Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: EdB] #60528
07/05/2015 06:24 AM
07/05/2015 06:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,842
New England (home), St. Maarte...
jmbcomms Offline
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jmbcomms  Offline
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Posts: 5,842
New England (home), St. Maarte...
There is also seasonal erosion at Orient. Seems to erode much more in Summer, though in recent years there has been more than I've ever seen. We first visited 37 years ago when there were no structures at all anywhere on Orient, just Pedro's little pushcart. It was one BIG nude beach then, but a few dozen people was a busy day.


Jeff Berger
Visiting SXM Since 1978
Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Marcheall] #60529
07/05/2015 11:03 AM
07/05/2015 11:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,616
Southern Maryland suburbs of D...
Bill_S Offline
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Bill_S  Offline
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Southern Maryland suburbs of D...
Beaches around the world have been growing and shrinking as a function of wind, weather, tides, currents, seasons, storms, etc. since time began. It is we humans that build something "permanent" on the shore expecting it to remain the same forever...and then complain when mother nature does what she has done for time immemorial...shift sand around at the shoreline constantly...

What a shoreline looks like on any given day is temporary...and WILL change! Enjoy what you find on any given day...


Bill
Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Bill_S] #60530
07/05/2015 11:05 AM
07/05/2015 11:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 71,863
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Carol_Hill  Offline
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Posts: 71,863
Central Florida!
Agreed, the sands change, yes. But I think the OP's point is that the building of the seawall, which is protecting Papagayo, has apparently caused a threat to some of the beach chalets. That is a different thing.


Carol Hill
Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Carol_Hill] #60531
07/05/2015 12:32 PM
07/05/2015 12:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 352
Pittsburgh, PA
gotaluvit Offline
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Pittsburgh, PA
Sea walls are well known to cause "flanking erosion" and the shape of the Papagayo wall is particularly bad as it causes wave reflection along the beach rather than back out to sea. Unfortunately, the Club probably didn't do much research and they may be playing a game of whack a mole trying to fix one problem and creating another. There are many examples of people using sea walls to protect structures only to cause way more damage than the original structure was worth... The tried and true answer is to move it inland.

Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Marcheall] #60532
07/05/2015 01:22 PM
07/05/2015 01:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,945
P
PelicanPirate Offline
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While it naturally comes and goes and storms amplify this, Orient Beach has a losing beach batting average the last 3 years. Climate change/rising seas in the clubhouse or just a natural slump.

As for the sea wall, not sure what else they can do but what they actually did do. Its like protecting a sandcastle with a wall. Eventually you lose.

That is the reality of building on the beach.

To be positive, I'm hoping their batting average changes and they get 3 years of building sand starting right now.

Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Bill_S] #60533
07/05/2015 01:36 PM
07/05/2015 01:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,786
Brookfield, CT.
pat Offline
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pat  Offline
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Posts: 12,786
Brookfield, CT.
Quote
Bill_S said:
Beaches around the world have been growing and shrinking as a function of wind, weather, tides, currents, seasons, storms, etc. since time began. It is we humans that build something "permanent" on the shore expecting it to remain the same forever...and then complain when mother nature does what she has done for time immemorial...shift sand around at the shoreline constantly...

What a shoreline looks like on any given day is temporary...and WILL change! Enjoy what you find on any given day...


Very well stated. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

And to all of these natural changes, don't forget to factor in mans invasion - dredging out, filling in, erecting beaches where nature never meant them to be, and all the other things we do to ourselves.......

On Anguilla a couple of years ago I asked what was creating the havoc that was occurring on Shoal Bay East around Gwenns. Several Anguillans at different times and in different situations each told me the same thing - man wreaks his own havoc and sometimes this is what we're left with.

Just sayin'....... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />


Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: gotaluvit] #60534
07/05/2015 01:39 PM
07/05/2015 01:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 71,863
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Carol_Hill  Offline
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Central Florida!
Agreed, they should have done more research with the design of what they did. Moving inland probably wasn't a big option for them though.


Carol Hill
Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Carol_Hill] #60535
07/06/2015 06:22 AM
07/06/2015 06:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 167
Other
letsgosailing Offline
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letsgosailing  Offline
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The beaches, marine life, reefs, etc, are all a finely balanced ecosystem. Before building a breakwater, there should have been an environmental study done. The beaches come and go in cycles. Maho & Mullet are low on sandy beach at the moment, but Simpson Bay beach is bigger than it has been for the past 3-4 years! Go figure. Perhaps "Club O's" solution will be to ADD more rocks to the wall. Wait and see.....If that doesn;t work, just keep adding more!

Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: EdB] #60536
07/06/2015 10:17 PM
07/06/2015 10:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 83
East Central Florida
M
Marcheall Offline OP
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Marcheall  Offline OP
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M
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 83
East Central Florida
Quote
EdB said:
The beaches all over the island come and go. It's the same with Maho...some times there is a huge beach...other times it is just rocks. It's mother nature doing what mother nature does. There probably is nothing that Club O can do to change the way the ocean currents are. I've been going to the island for around 25 years now...and have seen huge beach at Orient...and other times it can be hard to put one row of chairs at points.


Yes, that's all true. But that is not the case when it comes to the Papagayo part of the beach at Club O. For the past 15-20 years, this part of the beach has only gotten smaller. I have no proof, but I think it's possible that something happened when Hurricane Luis came through in 1995. At first it was very gradual and difficult to even notice, but it started getting smaller and smaller. By 2009, what was once 50 feet of beach (or more), was down to just 10 feet. By 2011 it was all gone.... the water had reached Papagayo. In 2013, Club O put rocks and boulders at the base of Papagayo's "front wall" in an attempt to protect the building. By 2015, the rocks could no longer hold back the ocean and Club O built the seawall (barrier) that was completed a few months ago. Now the water is working its way around the seawall (to the north), which is why I started this thread. Where (and how) will this end?

I have photo's showing the beach in front of Papagayo. They show just how drastic the decline has been over the past 20 years or so. I can email them to anyone who could post them into this tread.

Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: gotaluvit] #60537
07/06/2015 10:30 PM
07/06/2015 10:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 83
East Central Florida
M
Marcheall Offline OP
Traveler
Marcheall  Offline OP
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M
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 83
East Central Florida
Quote
gotaluvit said:
Sea walls are well known to cause "flanking erosion" and the shape of the Papagayo wall is particularly bad as it causes wave reflection along the beach rather than back out to sea.


Yes, well said. That is exactly what is happening.

Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Marcheall] #60538
07/07/2015 11:07 AM
07/07/2015 11:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 969
Maine U.S.A.
Modi Offline
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Modi  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 969
Maine U.S.A.
I am wondering if that reef at the end of the southern most outcropping might be breaking down after all the pounding it takes, and changing the way currents flow into Orient Bay?
Five years of views of Papagayos.

Late May 2011
[Linked Image]

June 2012
[Linked Image]

June 2013
[Linked Image]

June 2014
[Linked Image]

June 2015
[Linked Image]

Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Modi] #60539
07/07/2015 12:57 PM
07/07/2015 12:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,907
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
islandgem Offline
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islandgem  Offline
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Posts: 12,907
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Very nicely depicted. Thanks for sharing!




Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Modi] #60540
07/07/2015 10:04 PM
07/07/2015 10:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 83
East Central Florida
M
Marcheall Offline OP
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Marcheall  Offline OP
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M
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 83
East Central Florida
Good visuals. Thank you. The previous 5 year span was just as drastic. It was harder to notice because the erosion was still so far away from Papagayo. Will be interesting to see your photo from next June.

Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Marcheall] #60541
07/07/2015 10:14 PM
07/07/2015 10:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631
Oyster Pond St. Martin
S
soualigacapt Offline
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soualigacapt  Offline
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S
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631
Oyster Pond St. Martin
April May and June are the months when there is always the least beach.

Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: letsgosailing] #60542
07/08/2015 07:02 AM
07/08/2015 07:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 236
Near Chattanooga, Tn.
M
MORWAVES Offline
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MORWAVES  Offline
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M
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 236
Near Chattanooga, Tn.
China is building islands and the beach is a problem at Club O.

Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Marcheall] #60543
07/14/2015 06:29 PM
07/14/2015 06:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 71,863
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Carol_Hill  Offline
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Posts: 71,863
Central Florida!
Here is a picture that Marcheall wanted me to post in this thread, of a picture which he says is probably from the early 90's. The difference in beach is dramatic, for sure!

[Linked Image]

We were at Club O for the millenium and I do seem to remember a whole lot of beach at that time, in front of Papagayo..


Carol Hill
Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Carol_Hill] #60544
07/14/2015 08:15 PM
07/14/2015 08:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,907
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
islandgem Offline
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islandgem  Offline
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Posts: 12,907
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Certainly different from today! That beach area hasn't come back in 15 years.




Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: islandgem] #60545
07/14/2015 08:55 PM
07/14/2015 08:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 939
Middle Tennessee
T
TravelHat Offline
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TravelHat  Offline
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T
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 939
Middle Tennessee
Boy those chairs never wear out <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Carol_Hill] #60546
07/15/2015 08:56 AM
07/15/2015 08:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 870
Arizona
M
marybeth Offline
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marybeth  Offline
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Posts: 870
Arizona
Carol, I think this picture says it all! Yes, the beach comes & goes but as can been seen here OB has mostly gone over the past 20 years. I have a picture somewhere of the volleyball net ON the beach with 3 or 4 rows of chairs around it. And I can remember talking to Andy & Cheryl about the impact of the cruise ship wharfs in Phillipsburg on the flow around the island. Nothing scientific & I only have vague memories of the conversation, but there was a feeling it began in a big way back then. I who loved OB rarely go there anymore - just not the same.


MB
Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: marybeth] #60547
07/15/2015 09:12 AM
07/15/2015 09:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 71,863
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Carol_Hill  Offline
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Posts: 71,863
Central Florida!
I have no knowledge whether something that far away would affect Orient sand or not, but there definitely used to be a ton more sand there.


Carol Hill
Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Modi] #60548
07/15/2015 11:38 AM
07/15/2015 11:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 993
Pittsburgh PA
P
plequerre Offline
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Posts: 993
Pittsburgh PA
Quote
Modi said:
I am wondering if that reef at the end of the southern most outcropping might be breaking down after all the pounding it takes, and changing the way currents flow into Orient Bay?
Five years of views of Papagayos.


Thanks a lot for these self-explanatory pictures. They're worth a thousand words.

Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Carol_Hill] #60549
07/15/2015 11:18 PM
07/15/2015 11:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 83
East Central Florida
M
Marcheall Offline OP
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Marcheall  Offline OP
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M
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 83
East Central Florida
Thank you for posting this Carol. Like you said, I can't place the exact year. The reason I want to say it was 93-95 is because of the trees and vegetation. Everything looks pretty lush in this photo and it took a few years after Luis for those plants and trees to get back to this point. If it is after the Luis rebuild it could be from the very late 90's or even the early 2000's. Perhaps someone can tell from looking at Papagayo if it's before or after Luis. Either way it shows just how much of the beach has been taken away. And, there is no indication that the erosion has peeked. I hate to think what will happen if it continues.

Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Marcheall] #60550
07/15/2015 11:40 PM
07/15/2015 11:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,945
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PelicanPirate Offline
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Looking at the recent aerial view today on the orient construction thread I would have to say club o might want to have a preliminary plan for more rocks and sea wall if the incursion continues it might threaten other buildings.

Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: PelicanPirate] #60551
07/16/2015 04:00 PM
07/16/2015 04:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 83
East Central Florida
M
Marcheall Offline OP
Traveler
Marcheall  Offline OP
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M
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 83
East Central Florida
Other than Papagayo (which seems pretty well protected now) there are three or four Chalet's that "could" be in trouble. Other than the few waterfront units, the rest of the units at Club O are a good distance from the beach. I'm sure they are trying to figure something out. I hope so anyway.

Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Carol_Hill] #60552
07/28/2015 03:47 PM
07/28/2015 03:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 613
Tarpon Springs, FL
Rich Offline
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Rich  Offline
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Posts: 613
Tarpon Springs, FL
Hello Caraol.
You may not remember Mary and I but we met you in SXM and NYC and also used to do the imprinted hats, tattoos and such. I wanted to contact you because, after 6 years, we would like to go back to SXM and was wondering if things have changed there and along Orient Beach and especially ClubO. If you have any input, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Rich & Mary


Rich & Mary
Lovers of warm summer breezes, French wine & cheeses.www.stsomewhere.net
Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Rich] #60553
07/28/2015 08:19 PM
07/28/2015 08:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 71,863
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Carol_Hill  Offline
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Posts: 71,863
Central Florida!
Rich--Definitely do remember you guys, yes. Glad to see you here again..

As far as whether things have changed, yes and no. Club Orient itself is very little changed. There are changes on the beach, some people come and gone, but at it's heart, it is one of the best places on earth...


Carol Hill
Re: Club O Has A Beach Problem [Re: Carol_Hill] #60554
08/24/2015 04:10 PM
08/24/2015 04:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 83
East Central Florida
M
Marcheall Offline OP
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Marcheall  Offline OP
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M
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 83
East Central Florida
Has anyone seen or heard how the Papagayo area of the Club O beach has fared over the past couple of months?


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