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Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: GeorgeC1] #71867
10/25/2015 07:16 AM
10/25/2015 07:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,131
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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warren460  Offline
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Posts: 2,131
Ontario, Canada
CGB and WB become dangerous in certain swell conditions.

Cooper and some times marina cay become uncomfortable in certain swell Conditions. As these two have wide entrances to the anchorage and are deep, they are not dangerous. They boat may roll uncomfortably on its mooring.


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
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Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: warren460] #71868
10/25/2015 08:30 AM
10/25/2015 08:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 987
annap, MD/BVI-Nanny Cay
hallucination Offline
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annap, MD/BVI-Nanny Cay
Add the cut from Monkey Point to Marina Cay to the list of dangerous places in a north swell.

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: GeorgeC1] #71869
10/25/2015 08:32 AM
10/25/2015 08:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 218
42.77N 76.14W
jmon Offline
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42.77N 76.14W
you can cab it from Great Harbor as well...thus avoiding all of the conversation regarding ground swells, crowded anchorages, dangerous dingy rides and drunken sailors...just sayin.


Jeff
Credit Card Captain
[Linked Image]
Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: jmon] #71870
10/25/2015 08:53 AM
10/25/2015 08:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 167
J
Jccarr Offline
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The link is a shot of Cane Garden Bay, I would not want to wake up to that starting up at 1:00AM. Like was said, understand the swell forecast. Also as noted above the deeper water you are in while anchored or moored the lesser effect of the swell.
http://www.wannasurf.com/spot/Central_Am...la-CIMG1029.jpg

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: Jccarr] #71871
10/25/2015 09:53 AM
10/25/2015 09:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 26
Colorado
3rdTimesaCharm Offline
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Colorado
This is all great (enlightening) information. We've overnighted at both White Bay and CGB on several occasions and never had an issue (in early December). Weren't even aware that they were fair-weather anchorages. Good to know.


Sailing * Sunning * Snorkeling * Swashbuckling
BVI 2003/2006/2008/2015/2016
(My head isn't that big, I'm just closer to the camera ... really ;-)
Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: 3rdTimesaCharm] #71872
10/25/2015 10:11 AM
10/25/2015 10:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,131
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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It's interesting that the charter companies don't have a web site devoted to when to stay away from certain bays.

Last edited by warren460; 10/25/2015 12:56 PM.

Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: warren460] #71873
10/25/2015 10:29 AM
10/25/2015 10:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,199
Devon, UK
salica Offline
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Devon, UK
Quote
warren460 said:
It's interesting that the charter companies don't have a web site devoted to when to stay away from certain gays.


LOL. (Think you got a typo)!!

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! #71874
10/25/2015 12:29 PM
10/25/2015 12:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 282
California
Sunnykm Offline
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California
Thank you George!

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: Sunnykm] #71875
10/25/2015 12:57 PM
10/25/2015 12:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,131
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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warren460  Offline
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Typo fixed. Apologies if anyone was offended.


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: 3rdTimesaCharm] #71876
10/25/2015 02:07 PM
10/25/2015 02:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,855
Maine
Breeze Offline
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Maine
I think many, if not most, repeat charterers to the BVI have experienced at least one night of rock-n-roll, if not worse ( as in drifting and colliding boats).

The question becomes, how does one inform the choices made when choosing an overnight location ?

I think the answer to that means being better informed, but getting better information also involves significant choices of HOW to get better information.

Luck only goes so far. The downside of a misinformed choice can be much worse than a sleepless night.

Some learning and reading here, accepting the experiences of others, is not a bad start to informing oneself.

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: warren460] #71877
10/25/2015 02:39 PM
10/25/2015 02:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
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Quote
warren460 said:
It's interesting that the charter companies don't have a web site devoted to when to stay away from certain bays.


Their lawyers will never want to take on that responsibility. At some point most of the places we enjoy with sand shores are unsafe. One of the laws of the sea is each captain is responsible for his own vessel and its safety. If a significant change is expected there is a good chance but no guarantee that someone local will knock on your hull with a heads up. If you are not at the dancing on the bar at the time? If you do not check your own weather and swell forecast late each day? You should be prepared to exit any of the open anchorages at a moments notice no matter what time the clock or contract say. If you can see open sea in any direction. One day wind, swell, and waves will come roaring in from that direction.

[Linked Image]

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: StormJib] #71878
10/25/2015 03:59 PM
10/25/2015 03:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,131
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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Ontario, Canada
It seems to me that they have that responsibility anyway. The hull damage waiver paid by charterers is not really insurance. It self insurance. If there is a hurricane coming, they notify the charter boats. If their web site even had some links to swell and weather info, that could be helpful.


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: StormJib] #71879
10/25/2015 06:15 PM
10/25/2015 06:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,001
S
sail445 Offline
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Well it's defined as an act of God.

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: warren460] #71880
10/25/2015 07:24 PM
10/25/2015 07:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
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Quote
warren460 said:
It seems to me that they have that responsibility anyway. The hull damage waiver paid by charterers is not really insurance. It self insurance. If there is a hurricane coming, they notify the charter boats. If their web site even had some links to swell and weather info, that could be helpful.


Remember the idea or concept that you have internet coverage on a boat is very new and even with coverage many do not carry the devices. A prudent mariner and competent skipper is expected to be able to determine where and when to anchor on there own. I do not see any of the corporate operators getting into the business on what boats will be safe where on any given night. Keep in mind the location in the harbor can make a difference between OK and disaster. When storm warning are posted by the governing authorities the boats are hailed to return to port. Simply check your cruising guide each anchorage is noted when it is protected, unprotected, and those that are safe only in settled weather. If you are not positive the weather is "settled" do no try to stay there.

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: StormJib] #71881
10/26/2015 03:26 PM
10/26/2015 03:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 201
TN
msdj69 Offline
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TN
To expand on a question asked earlier, which number matters more, the 'Swell' or 'Swell period'? And how does the secondary swell play a part in it? I heard previously that a swell of more than 3 or 4ft was problematic in CGB and WB. It sounds like there may be more to it, though. Your expert opinions are appreciated.

Here's a Windguru reading as reference...

http://www.windguru.cz/int/index.php?sc=58


Mike
Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: msdj69] #71882
10/26/2015 04:56 PM
10/26/2015 04:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 987
annap, MD/BVI-Nanny Cay
hallucination Offline
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annap, MD/BVI-Nanny Cay
It really is more about direction. with height being a close second. remember some sites show in feet, others in meters. BIG difference.

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: hallucination] #71883
10/26/2015 05:07 PM
10/26/2015 05:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,321
Charlotte, NC
SuburbanDharma Offline
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Charlotte, NC
CYOA redlined White Bay when we chartered with them.

Not a chance in hell I'd bring our boat in there- between the crowds during the day (we've seen MULTIPLE crashes) and the potential danger overnight it's totally not worth it.

We only dinghy from Great Harbour if conditions are VERY sunny & VERY flat seas. We've been caught on the way back from White Bay in a torrential rain, with a 9 hp dinghy motor & 6 of us frantically bailing water out with our painkiller cups. It was funny at the time because the sea was flat, but it could easily get ugly...just as simple to cab over from Great Harbour. Or a good way to walk off your Corsair's breakfast burrito by hiking over (and cabbing back!)


If I can't be a good example, I'll just have to be a horrible warning. [Linked Image]
Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: SuburbanDharma] #71884
10/26/2015 06:42 PM
10/26/2015 06:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,131
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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Ontario, Canada
Here is a website that discusses swells.

http://magicseaweed.com/help/forecast/swell


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: warren460] #71885
10/26/2015 08:25 PM
10/26/2015 08:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 787
Calgary
B
bonefish Offline
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Calgary

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: warren460] #71886
10/26/2015 08:26 PM
10/26/2015 08:26 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 109
Bozeman / Minneapolis
snowdog Offline
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Bozeman / Minneapolis
Quote
warren460 said:
It seems to me that they have that responsibility anyway. The hull damage waiver paid by charterers is not really insurance. It self insurance. If there is a hurricane coming, they notify the charter boats. If their web site even had some links to swell and weather info, that could be helpful.

You are correct, the hull damage waiver is not insurance. Ever charter boat either has an individual policy or is part of a fleet policy. The damage waiver basically covers the deductible of the yacht's insurance policy.

Each skipper is responsible for operating the boat safely and ensuring the crew and boat are not harmed. If you feel that you need a website to tell you when and where to anchor/moor safely, please consider hiring a professional captain. Or at least don't charter my boat... ;-)


s/v Snow Dog - Leopard 46
Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: snowdog] #71887
10/26/2015 09:16 PM
10/26/2015 09:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 540
Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin Offline
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Posts: 540
Redmond, WA
Quote
snowdog said:
Quote
warren460 said:
It seems to me that they have that responsibility anyway. The hull damage waiver paid by charterers is not really insurance. It self insurance. If there is a hurricane coming, they notify the charter boats. If their web site even had some links to swell and weather info, that could be helpful.

You are correct, the hull damage waiver is not insurance. Ever charter boat either has an individual policy or is part of a fleet policy. The damage waiver basically covers the deductible of the yacht's insurance policy.

Each skipper is responsible for operating the boat safely and ensuring the crew and boat are not harmed. If you feel that you need a website to tell you when and where to anchor/moor safely, please consider hiring a professional captain. Or at least don't charter my boat... ;-)


This is silly. A website is just another source of information. If you need a chart to know where to anchor/moor safely I guess you don't qualify either?


M4000 "Lio Kai"
Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: MrEZgoin] #71888
10/26/2015 09:54 PM
10/26/2015 09:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
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No one is going to create a website declaring White Bay or Cane Garden Bay or any other place safe or unsafe by the day or hour. If you know the weather to be settled take your chances in there against a possible lee shore for a few hours. If there is any doubt on if the weather is stable or unstable. The boat and your guests will be better elsewhere. Stable means both the wind and the sea and the two may have nothing to do with one another. You can have absolutely no wind and experience the swell crashing in from a storm days ago thousands of miles away. Leave a boat anchored or on a mooring long enough in White Bay or Cane Garden Bay and you will experience god putting that boat on the beach, reef, or rocks. It is just a matter of time. In White Bay a drunk can crash into you at any time.

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: snowdog] #71889
10/26/2015 10:20 PM
10/26/2015 10:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,131
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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Ontario, Canada
That's why our boat is not available for charter. Besides, what we are really talking about could come under the heading local knowledge. This is or should be part of the chart briefing. The briefing should also cover the local area tools to help the newbie stay safe.


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: snowdog] #71890
10/27/2015 10:05 AM
10/27/2015 10:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 969
NC, USA
capndar Offline
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NC, USA
Looks like somewhat of as N Swell headed to the VI this weekend


Capndar
Masters 50 GT Sail/Power/Towing
3rd generation sailor
Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: capndar] #71891
10/27/2015 10:07 AM
10/27/2015 10:07 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 16,405
Tortola/ Sonoma, California
Manpot Offline
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Manpot  Offline
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Tortola/ Sonoma, California
3 to 4 feet right now on the North Shore..

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: Manpot] #71892
10/27/2015 01:34 PM
10/27/2015 01:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,182
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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GeorgeC1  Offline
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GA/NC
Swell right now then a short break and back for the weekend!

COASTAL WATERS FORECAST
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE SAN JUAN PR
1050 AM AST TUE OCT 27 2015

PUERTO RICO AND U.S. VIRGIN ISLANDS WATERS

SEAS ARE PROVIDED AS A RANGE OF THE AVERAGE HEIGHT OF THE HIGHEST 1/3
OF THE SEAS...ALONG WITH THE OCCASIONAL HEIGHT OF THE AVERAGE HIGHEST
10 PERCENT OF THE SEAS.

AMZ715-280330-
COASTAL WATERS OF NORTHERN USVI AND CULEBRA OUT 10 NM-
1050 AM AST TUE OCT 27 2015

REST OF TODAY
NORTHEAST WINDS 5 TO 10 KNOTS. SEAS 2 TO 4 FEET
WITH OCCASIONAL SEAS UP TO 5 FEET. DOMINANT PERIOD 10 SECONDS. NORTH SWELL UP
TO 4 FEET. NUMEROUS SHOWERS AND SCATTERED THUNDERSTORMS.

TONIGHT
EAST WINDS 10 TO 15 KNOTS. SEAS 3 TO 5 FEET WITH
OCCASIONAL SEAS UP TO 6 FEET. DOMINANT PERIOD 10 SECONDS. NORTH SWELL UP TO
4 FEET. NUMEROUS SHOWERS AND SCATTERED THUNDERSTORMS.

WEDNESDAY
EAST WINDS 5 TO 10 KNOTS. SEAS 3 TO 5 FEET WITH
OCCASIONAL SEAS UP TO 6 FEET. DOMINANT PERIOD 10 SECONDS. NUMEROUS SHOWERS
AND SCATTERED THUNDERSTORMS.

WEDNESDAY NIGHT
EAST WINDS 5 TO 10 KNOTS. SEAS 3 TO 5 FEET WITH
OCCASIONAL SEAS UP TO 6 FEET. DOMINANT PERIOD 10 SECONDS. ISOLATED
THUNDERSTORMS IN THE EVENING. SCATTERED SHOWERS THROUGH THE NIGHT.

THURSDAY
EAST WINDS 5 TO 10 KNOTS. SEAS 3 TO 5 FEET WITH
OCCASIONAL SEAS UP TO 6 FEET. DOMINANT PERIOD 13 SECONDS. SCATTERED SHOWERS
AND ISOLATED THUNDERSTORMS.

FRIDAY
EAST WINDS AROUND 10 KNOTS. SEAS 2 TO 4 FEET WITH
OCCASIONAL SEAS UP TO 5 FEET. DOMINANT PERIOD 11 SECONDS. NORTH SWELL UP TO
4 FEET. SCATTERED SHOWERS. ISOLATED THUNDERSTORMS.

SATURDAY
EAST WINDS 10 TO 15 KNOTS. SEAS 2 TO 4 FEET WITH

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: GeorgeC1] #71893
10/27/2015 02:38 PM
10/27/2015 02:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 201
TN
msdj69 Offline
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TN
Does that match up to this WindGuru report? I'm still trying to interpret the importance of Height, Period, Direction, and Primary/Secondary.

[Linked Image]


Mike
Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: msdj69] #71894
10/27/2015 06:25 PM
10/27/2015 06:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 987
annap, MD/BVI-Nanny Cay
hallucination Offline
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annap, MD/BVI-Nanny Cay
http://www.surf-forecast.com/weather_maps/British-Virgin-Islands

I would take these combined sources to say.

Bubbly pool will be good, not dangerous

CGB will see some wave breaks on the reef that might make it a bit rolly

I'd stay away from WB

Stay out of the outer moorings at Cooper towards point a quart


but, thats just my judgement.

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: hallucination] #71895
10/27/2015 06:47 PM
10/27/2015 06:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
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StormJib Offline
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On a much more general and broader perspective. The forecast is not "settled" the wind direction with shift, the swell direction will change. You could anchor in one condition and find another condition in just a few hours.

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: StormJib] #71896
10/27/2015 08:40 PM
10/27/2015 08:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,131
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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warren460  Offline
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Ontario, Canada
This has been a very useful thread. I have picked up 2 new web sites to cionsider


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: StormJib] #71897
10/28/2015 08:38 AM
10/28/2015 08:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,001
S
sail445 Offline
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You're right at this time of the year the seasons are changing and North swells will become more common and enter the area with little or no warning.

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: StormJib] #71898
10/28/2015 11:03 AM
10/28/2015 11:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,131
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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warren460  Offline
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Ontario, Canada
Can someone provide a link to an image of a sailboat on shore in white Bay? Thanks in advance.


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: warren460] #71899
10/28/2015 12:59 PM
10/28/2015 12:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 33
S
socalnewf Offline
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Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: warren460] #71900
10/28/2015 01:42 PM
10/28/2015 01:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,855
Maine
Breeze Offline
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Maine
Perhaps someone will have better luck searching than I, and can refresh our memories of the Mr Bill wreck last year .

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: socalnewf] #71901
10/28/2015 03:40 PM
10/28/2015 03:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,001
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sail445 Offline
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It's amazing how these ship designers think of every type of situation.
<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: warren460] #71902
10/28/2015 03:51 PM
10/28/2015 03:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,197
Toledo, OH, USA
Orange_Burst Offline
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Quote
warren460 said:
Can someone provide a link to an image of a sailboat on shore in white Bay? Thanks in advance.


I think this is the thread you're looking for:

http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/s...part=5&vc=1


Colleen

[Linked Image]

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: Orange_Burst] #71903
10/28/2015 04:39 PM
10/28/2015 04:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,131
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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Thanks Collen, that is exactly what I am looking for.


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: warren460] #71904
10/28/2015 05:24 PM
10/28/2015 05:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,855
Maine
Breeze Offline
Traveler
Breeze  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,855
Maine
Thank you Colleen, that is exactly the thread.

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: Lcrich] #71905
10/30/2015 09:10 AM
10/30/2015 09:10 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 807
Manhattan Beach, CA
calsail Offline
Traveler
calsail  Offline
Traveler
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 807
Manhattan Beach, CA
We picked up the farthest west mooring in White Bay about 10 years ago on a late February night. Calm when we tied up. Ended up the worst night ever on a mooring in the BVI in 35 trips. Believe it or not the dinghy filled and sank to 3 inches above water. Engine submerged. OMG what an adventure.

Re: Rocking, rolly all night long! [Re: calsail] #71906
10/30/2015 09:46 AM
10/30/2015 09:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,182
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
Traveler
GeorgeC1  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,182
GA/NC
I had a night caused by a Thunderstorm in WB I will not forget. Had a boat drag down on us at 3 AM and snag our anchor chain. A mess to sort out with waves breaking over the reef. The mono that snagged us was being slammed down on its keel in the troughs of each wave.
I also watched a Moorings 4300 drag onto the reef after a 90 degree wind shift while crew was ashore.
G

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