I have chartered most available cats over the past 20 years (Leopards and Lagoons of various sizes, models, etc) and for me, far and away the Lagoon 450 w the flybridge has been the best suited, whether w my family or adult friends. I never took to the off center cockpit helm. I was therefore very interested in the new Helia 44 which attempts to blend the best of both styles. Last week I had the opportunity and came away less than impressed. First off, hat tip to CYOA, CaptnJay, Twanger and Dawnp for their assistance with the trip itself; however, this review is about the boat. The boats systems were first rate. The Onan generator, the water and ice maker, touch screen chartplotter, electric davit winch, made for a comfortable and convenient voyage. I will note that the conditions were less than ideal but that is when a boat should shine. With a fresher than normal trade wind and short steep sea, the boat was challenged. It certainly was capable but for some poor design reason, every single wave to windward outside the FDC found its way to the helmsman's face. Mind you that is a good 6 feet above sea level!! I dont mean every once in a while, I mean every single wave within 30 degrees off the wind. Without a dodger it was extremely frustrating. Even the seating area next to the helm and higher up was soaked making the rest of the crew stay in the sheltered? cockpit. I question sheltered bc w the open helm area wind swept rain found its way into the aft cockpit often. When conditions permitted, I will say that the lounge and additional seating area were indeed pluses over traditional cats, but still less functional and comfortable than the Lagoon flybrige. I similarly, found the access and angles to the winches and lines awkward and less than efficient comparatively. I recognize that all large charter cruising cats have tremendous loads in 25+ kts but again the sharp angles necessary to direct all lines to one side add to this. For some reason, the boat had a electric halyard winch but I was told the owner wanted it disabled?? This made raising the main exhausting. I am a fit 50 yr old and doubt I could handle it in 5-10 years. I also missed any front seating. At anchor, it is nice to sit in the front of the boat instead of the cockpit.
Inside, we had the owners version and I was blown away at the size and comfort of the cabins. One can not say that sailing this boat is roughing it . In the salon, the seatee did NOT have a dining table but opted for a coffee style lower table. While it opening up the area, it became a serious flaw if it was raining outside. Twice, we could not eat at the cockpit table due to the weather and had to either sit on the floor or hold the plates in our laps for dinner. The table should convert so the user can have it either way. Like many Euro boats, there were also a number of sharp corners that a signficant seaway tends to put bruises on you. Dont misjudge my criticisms - this was a impressive boat in paradise and we all had a great time. But we all charter for different reasons and try and find the right boat for each of us. I was excited that the Helia 44 might have all the Lagoon 450 had, plus more and better performance. My conclusion is that it was not. Hope this is helpful.

Great detailed review -- thanks!

Dan <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Cheers.gif" alt="" />

I would sure miss that electric halyard winch on a boat that big.

I can understand how you can get into trouble with an electric winch but on a 450 with one that I couldn't use, at my age? I'd sure appreciate a reviewer telling me about that!

I don't have time to come up with the exhaustive list on what has been broken on my boat when in charter with an electric winch.

Although mine does not have lazyjacks, as I suppose the Helia has. Specific to the main halyard.....
How many times have you seen a group of people with a diaper sail because they can't figure out how to un tangle it from the jacks? with an electric winch....
PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!

Unfortunately, everyone sailing down there is not as cautious as some of us would like to think we are.

Having chartered the FP Orana 44 (predecessor to the Helia) multiple times, I can say that I'm not surprised by your review. I was not impressed by the yacht in any fashion while sailing. Though comfortable while at rest, it's not a yacht that I would ever consider owning.

The general livability of this yacht is outstanding. As windward2c states, the master-cabin in the starboard hull is impressive. Largest cabin I've ever occupied on a cruising boat. Normally we're stumped on where to stash our gear, but this cabin took in 200 lb of gear easily. Could have stowed 500 lb.

When we chartered her we had 5 crew, so eating inside at the small table was not a big deal. I do agree that a small coffee table inside is a departure from the norm. Seems to be the 'ting these day. I also prefer a proper salon table. If you were to spend a number of continuous days at sea it would be a dramatic shortcoming, but when you're only sailing 2-3 hours a day and have warm settled weather it's no big deal. We had almost all our meals in the cockpit.

We missed having really big seas, so we didn't get pelted by the waves as described. We tacked up the south coast of Vieques in 3-4 foot seas and didn't get very wet, but it was only for about 2 hours.

Are you sure the settee table didn't raise up for eating and lower to be a coffee table and become an additional sleeping area? I have seen some boats with that as an option.

Windward2c - I have booked this boat for this summer, and have a few years on you. Were you raising the main with the winch from the cockpit, or by pulling the halyard at the mast?

I will have some younger crew so it will likely not be an issue either way.

Thanks

Many a crew and much material have been very damaged by power winches. I am not sure how you could ever come up with a method to check out all the crew on the use of power winches on a charter dock. The human injuries can be catastrophic. The injuries of one wife at the dock in Antigua come to mind. If you do not fully understand loads, the proper running of lines under load, and the special safety requirements of any powered winch or windlass you should avoid being anywhere near one in use.

All that said the powered winch can be an invaluable tool for the knowledgeable and responsible crew. I am sure I will get flamed by a few here. Long before any of the charter boats had powered winches on them. The careful observer could watch many of the paid captains who knew how to run lines for loads using the windlass to get the main up the last third or so up the mast. If you know what you are doing the windlass can be very effective getting a clear main up the mast.

Again there are many good reasons to not hand a boat over to amateurs with a powered winch aboard.

Not on any Helias we've seen.

We had a Helia 44 out in July, CYOA's Glad In It, and we enjoyed her. We tried for a spot of fishing south of Norman Island and the wind blew hard and the swell was up once we were in open water. We bounced around a bit, but I was mostly dry on the helm, even on a starboard tack with the swell and the wind on the starboard side. It was July, so I was comfortable.

Glad In It has a furling main and she sailed fine. My big brother-in-law was nice to have on the winches. We had ten on her and the kids loved the coffin bunks. We found her super livable with a shocking amount of storage and room to spread out. We had some rain showers, but had dinner in the cockpit every night without a problem. Our biggest challenge was water usage with ten people.

The cat was fun, but I'm happy to be back on our monohull on Friday.

Cheers, RickG

jboothe - the settee definitely did not convert. It seemed so logical but this was clearly a decision by FP to move in a different direction. There was however an awesome bar under the table - value not to be underestimated.

As to the spray over the bow to the helm, I would note that the swell period was shorter, and steeper, than usually associated with the breeze. Imagine 7-9' chop - lol. Every couple of waves the boat would go from 7.3kts to 3.8kts. So YMMV...

tothedogs - some days my 14 yr old son and me would swap who would "jump" the main halyard at the mast. But in either scenario it was only helpful to about the same point as when I "manually" pulled from the helm. We always had a reef and still needed to winch more than one would expect (prob last 1/3rd). Can only imagine if I had to go all the way up. Now in fairness to the Helia, (a) the main needs more sailcars/clips, and (b) when it is blowing as hard as it was it creates more friction. In perefect conditions, it certainly would be easier but sailing is rarely perfect. As for "jumping" the halyard, this is not a race and almost all cruising boats do not need the halyard to be jumped. Add to this fact that unless you raise in the harbor (which I dont do 50% of the time, esp if it is windy and crowded) you now face someone at the mast (not a secure spot on most cats) in a seaway. Also, in a seaway, threading the lazyjacks get even harder. So you are screaming at the mast (generally wife, friend or offspring as opposed to your race bowperson) "caught in jacks, lower two feet again!". Know you have all been there. Anyway, most of the boats I have chartered 45 or bigger have had a electric winch, and so did this one (also had a electric davit winch which was engaged and used everyday) but for some reason the owner did not want it used in charter (fair but users should know). And dont even get me started on how difficult and poorly thought out attaching the flat top main head to the halyard itself (two person job until I jury rigged a system to assist).
To be clear, the Helia 44 is a great boat! Many many pluses, but we sailors love to overanalyze systems/performance. I was excited b4 the charter than this boat might be my new favorite and it was not - the electric winch and settee would not have changed that. I could find something wrong with every charter boat Ive had over the years but rarely did it stop me from having the time of my life!!

I suspect the reason the owner wanted the winch deactivated is because charters can easily damage rigging with the tremendous torque a electric winch generates. I suspect this boat was sold as a private boat and will be in charter for only a limited time under a tax plan one boat brokerage is pushing.
George