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Sleep aboards to be taxed? #91528
03/25/2016 02:02 PM
03/25/2016 02:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,470
Adagio Villa, Mahoe Bay,Virgin...
gordaguy2 Offline OP
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Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: gordaguy2] #91529
03/25/2016 02:21 PM
03/25/2016 02:21 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 109
Bozeman / Minneapolis
snowdog Offline
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Bozeman / Minneapolis
Taxing tourists is very common. The hotel taxes in most major US cities is more than 10%. I am not sure I have a issue - if the money is well spent.

One challenge I see is for boats that are crossing into the USVI to spend a few days/nights. How would that work for taxes?

Anyone know what BVI taxes are paid on charters now? (besides the park permit fees)


s/v Snow Dog - Leopard 46
Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: snowdog] #91530
03/25/2016 02:30 PM
03/25/2016 02:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,098
Maryland
Twanger Offline
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Twanger  Offline
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Maryland
We often charter in the USVI and sail to the BVI.
The last time we did this we paid a total of about $400 for 8 people on a 41-foot Catamaran for 7 days. This included the park permit.

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: Twanger] #91531
03/25/2016 02:58 PM
03/25/2016 02:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,989
Macon, Georgia
GlennA Offline
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GlennA  Offline
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Macon, Georgia
That reads more like he wants the tax on charter fees not just sleep aboards.


Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: GlennA] #91532
03/25/2016 04:53 PM
03/25/2016 04:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,119
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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I hear that Belize wants to collect 10% of the charter fee as a hotel tax. Let's watch the fleets leave.


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 and Lagoon 450, (both part of the Charter Caribe fleet (all inclusive-crewed charters) based in St Thomas USVI https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
A TTOL sponsor
Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: warren460] #91533
03/26/2016 08:32 AM
03/26/2016 08:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,196
Saint Thomas, USVI
CaptainJay Offline
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Saint Thomas, USVI
They should call this new tax the Spanish and American Virgin Island Charter industry revitalization act.

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: CaptainJay] #91534
03/26/2016 09:33 AM
03/26/2016 09:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,017
Charlotte, NC
N
NCSailor Offline
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Charlotte, NC
What's missing from this money grab is any justification for the higher taxes. Education? No. Better customs facilities? No. Roads? No. Programs to teach common courtesy to government employees? No.

More black SUVs for politicos? Yes! More barely show patronage jobs? Yes!

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: NCSailor] #91535
03/26/2016 10:23 AM
03/26/2016 10:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,844
VI,GA,AZ
sail445 Online happy
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VI,GA,AZ
Sounds like they're copying the US, taxation without representation

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: sail445] #91536
03/27/2016 11:25 AM
03/27/2016 11:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 167
Other
letsgosailing Offline
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Aruba has a 24% hotel tax...
I am surprised that it too them this long to start in Charter vessels..


Capt. Russell
Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: letsgosailing] #91537
03/27/2016 11:37 AM
03/27/2016 11:37 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,527
Ya never know...
HillsideView Offline
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Ya never know...
Sales (BBO) Tax
Aruba has a sales tax on the supply of goods and services in the amount of 1.5% of the sale. The tax is charged on (among other things) hotel bookings, activities and dining.

Hotel Room Tax
The Aruban Government levies a 6% room tax on all hotel and timeshare rooms. Hotels and timeshares levy an 11% hotel service charge on rooms. Some properties also levy an energy service charge. All will be detailed on your checkout bill.


This page was last updated 03/27/2016 11:36:57


My foot fits right into my shoe and my shoe will fit right into your...
Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: HillsideView] #91538
03/27/2016 12:53 PM
03/27/2016 12:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 80
Seattle, WA
mattt Offline
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Seattle, WA
I see nothing wrong with paying a little extra to support their local economy.

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: mattt] #91539
03/27/2016 01:15 PM
03/27/2016 01:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,119
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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Ontario, Canada
Already providing tremdous support for their local economy. Add this tax and increasing mooring ball fees to the mix. As jay says, this will favourably impact the usvi and svi charter industries.


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 and Lagoon 450, (both part of the Charter Caribe fleet (all inclusive-crewed charters) based in St Thomas USVI https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
A TTOL sponsor
Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: warren460] #91540
03/27/2016 02:12 PM
03/27/2016 02:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,798
Maine
Breeze Offline
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Breeze  Offline
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Maine
Could be quite interesting if every charter boat is determined to be a floating hotel and occupants are taxed at 10% of their charter fee for sleeping every night

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: Breeze] #91541
03/27/2016 02:18 PM
03/27/2016 02:18 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 16,154
Tortola/ Sonoma, California
Manpot Offline
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Tortola/ Sonoma, California
Someone seems determined to execute the golden goose..not just kill it slowly..cruise ships..dock extension..runway extension..at least they got the hospital open..and all this as Cuba opens up and rolls out the red carpet..this is not the way to compete in a competative market.." Nature's Little Secrets"..really???..wish we could have kept it that way.

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: gordaguy2] #91542
03/27/2016 03:46 PM
03/27/2016 03:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 440
Charlotte, NC
DEL Offline
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DEL  Offline
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Charlotte, NC
As one who has been chartering in the BVI for more than 40 years, I am willing to pay for value. I used to anchor where today there are $30 mooring fees. I see value there. When taxi fares were jacked up by the government, I started renting cars. As hotel rates have risen (with added taxes and arbitrary fees, e.g. Maria's by the Sea $25 fee), I have gravitated to sleepaboards. Not only is it cheaper, but I get off the dock earlier and get a prime mooring ball location that evening.
This politician seems focused on raising tax revenue from tourists without touching locals. Try developing a mooring ball reservation system with demand-based pricing. I would gladly pay more to guarantee a mooring ball at my destination. That's my idea of value!

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: Breeze] #91543
03/27/2016 04:49 PM
03/27/2016 04:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
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Quote
Breeze said:
Could be quite interesting if every charter boat is determined to be a floating hotel and occupants are taxed at 10% of their charter fee for sleeping every night


Europe and particularly France have been in this battle since +/- 2013. The EU ruled all yacht charters are responsible to pay VAT on the total price of the contract or +/- 20 percent. Italy is a clear 21%. The whole thing is hotly debated and you need a good lawyer to understand what is in, what is exempt, what is claimable. Moving to Florida if you rent anything without a crew. You must pay sales tax on the total rental.

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: mattt] #91544
03/27/2016 04:51 PM
03/27/2016 04:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 168
WI. St. Thomas
TomSW Offline
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WI. St. Thomas
That would be great, if it actually worked that way. But it doesn't. Any monies collected are not going to the local economy. They are going into the politicians pockets. You don't have to live down here too long to realize that. Just a fact of life.

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: TomSW] #91545
03/27/2016 05:11 PM
03/27/2016 05:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,119
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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Ontario, Canada
It's to bad that this is all speculation. If we had concrete proposals, maybe we would start voting with our check books.

I hope that the charter industry is not sitting idle while this gets screwed up.


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 and Lagoon 450, (both part of the Charter Caribe fleet (all inclusive-crewed charters) based in St Thomas USVI https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
A TTOL sponsor
Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: warren460] #91546
03/27/2016 05:43 PM
03/27/2016 05:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
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Quote
warren460 said:
It's to bad that this is all speculation. If we had concrete proposals, maybe we would start voting with our check books.



I hope that the charter industry is not sitting idle while this gets screwed up.


Back in the day Charlie Cary and the other early pioneers had a roundtable where each charter operator had one seat. At times this group was at least an influential political lobby. Charlie Cary and his wife Jenny were conferred upon the the status of "Honorary Belongers". The sum total of the many whose livelihood depends on the boats going in and out of the docks on Tortola is very large. Taxi's, Provisions, Mechanics....

The other reality is the BVI runs on +/-$300M in taxes and fees. In January the BVI had more than $15M in invoices they did not have the cash to pay. With $20 Million in bills each month the BVI Gov usually has less than $7M in cash on hand.

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: snowdog] #91547
03/28/2016 09:26 AM
03/28/2016 09:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 308
Tampa, FL
denverd0n Offline
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Tampa, FL
Quote
snowdog said:I am not sure I have a issue - if the money is well spent.

I would have absolutely NO issue, if the money was well spent. But therein lies the problem. Whether we are talking about the BVI, or any other government bureaucracy, the money is almost NEVER "well spent!"

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: denverd0n] #91548
03/28/2016 09:36 AM
03/28/2016 09:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,593
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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Keep in mind charter boats are taxed now.
The boat owner pays a yearly tax to charter.
Boat import tax
There is a cruising tax.
Any replacement parts are taxed.
Fishing tax
New boat fishing tax
National Park tax
Charter guests pay a 20 to 40 dollar exit tax

The BVI can add additional taxes if they choose. Charter companies, boat owners, and charter customers can choose to pay them or take their business elsewhere. I suspect the BVI is underestimating the effects of Cuba opening up. I think when Cuba is fully up and running it's going to have a big impact on the BVI. Everyone I know with a charter boat is looking at moving it to Cuba. It's going to be a great place that's very easy to get to and from. I am already hearing about plans for fast ferries from South Florida. Airfares should be only slightly more then flying to Miami from anywhere in the country. If the Cuban government places it's cards right they will be the place to go.
G

Last edited by GeorgeC1; 03/28/2016 09:45 AM.
Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: GeorgeC1] #91549
03/28/2016 10:14 AM
03/28/2016 10:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,098
Maryland
Twanger Offline
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Twanger  Offline
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Posts: 6,098
Maryland
You're right George.
In the last 6 years we've done half our trips in the SVI.

No boat import tax.
No cruising tax.
No national park tax.
Free fishing.
Free anchoring.
Free moorings.
No exit fees.

So I figure we save $600-$800 going to the SVI vs. the BVI.

That buys a lot of lobster!

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: Twanger] #91550
03/28/2016 12:52 PM
03/28/2016 12:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,593
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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GeorgeC1  Offline
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GA/NC
You can also catch your own lobster in the USVI and SVi!
G

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: Twanger] #91551
03/28/2016 02:19 PM
03/28/2016 02:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
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Quote
Twanger said:
You're right George.
In the last 6 years we've done half our trips in the SVI.

No boat import tax.
No cruising tax.
No national park tax.
Free fishing.
Free anchoring.
Free moorings.
No exit fees.

So I figure we save $600-$800 going to the SVI vs. the BVI.

That buys a lot of lobster!


All true plus very little infrastructure, very hard to impossible to find potable water, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico while part of the US has very deep budget and economic troubles. Enjoy it while you can. At some point someone will have to pay the tab that is running in and on Puerto Rico. In Florida all that would be taxed at 6% or more.

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: StormJib] #91552
03/28/2016 02:48 PM
03/28/2016 02:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,647
St. John, USVI
RickG Offline
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St. John, USVI
Sales tax in PR is now 11.5%. We still got some deals in Fajardo in October even with that tax. We got water at Puerto Del Rey. But, with two of us 95 gallons lasts two weeks.

Cheers, RickG


S/V Echoes, 2003 Benetau 423
St. John, USVI
Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: RickG] #91553
03/28/2016 02:55 PM
03/28/2016 02:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
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Quote
RickG said:
Sales tax in PR is now 11.5%. We still got some deals in Fajardo in October even with that tax. We got water at Puerto Del Rey. But, with two of us 95 gallons lasts two weeks.

Cheers, RickG


Ouch!!

This is a little cut and past for the PR based Sail Caribe...

A 50% deposit is required upon reservation & the balance is billed forty-five (45) days prior to charter

- Sales tax, Diesel fuel and Daily Damage waiver is charged extra

- Cancellation Policy applies

Still got a ways to go to catch up the 20% plus rates in Italy and France.

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: StormJib] #91554
03/28/2016 03:55 PM
03/28/2016 03:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,098
Maryland
Twanger Offline
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Maryland
So on the water thingy... if you charter a boat with a water-maker and ice-maker from CYOA then you don't have to worry about getting either!

They are equipping their fleet to make it more viable to cruise the SVI. Aboard Big Papa Lulu (Helia 44 cat) last August we used about 110 gal Diesel in 10 days running the generator and AC about 14 hours a day, and making water 3 hours a day. Paid less than $2 a gallon for Diesel at Del Rey. Schweeeeeet. For 10 straight days we NEVER bought ice and never bought water. never even worried about it.

It's really nice not having plan stopping every two days for ice, and fussing over water. Think about how much time you waste chasing ice, buying ice, carrying 40 pounds of ice in your laps in the dingy, racing back to the boat to get it in the cooler to stop it from melting. What a pain!

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: GeorgeC1] #91555
03/28/2016 04:03 PM
03/28/2016 04:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,237
Long Bay Hill, Tortola, BVI
Pineapple Offline
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Pineapple  Offline
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Posts: 1,237
Long Bay Hill, Tortola, BVI
Quote
GeorgeC1 said:
Keep in mind charter boats are taxed now.
The boat owner pays a yearly tax to charter.
Boat import tax
There is a cruising tax.
Any replacement parts are taxed.
Fishing tax
New boat fishing tax
National Park tax
Charter guests pay a 20 to 40 dollar exit tax

The BVI can add additional taxes if they choose. Charter companies, boat owners, and charter customers can choose to pay them or take their business elsewhere. I suspect the BVI is underestimating the effects of Cuba opening up. I think when Cuba is fully up and running it's going to have a big impact on the BVI. Everyone I know with a charter boat is looking at moving it to Cuba. It's going to be a great place that's very easy to get to and from. I am already hearing about plans for fast ferries from South Florida. Airfares should be only slightly more then flying to Miami from anywhere in the country. If the Cuban government places it's cards right they will be the place to go.
G

I don't check TTOL often but I have to respond to this one.

The BVI has long underestimated the effects of LOTS of things. Including water for the people, affordable food and affordable electricity in relation to the pay scale, efficient ferry service for tourist and locals alike, welcoming, efficient services from entry to having a meal, clean air for the people of West End instead of an incinerator billowing toxins, sewer issues, roads, traffic and parking problems, not enough police to police the place, certain crowded beaches that still run land based guests away, projects that run by $30 million over budget, constant new taxes and fees on tourist... on and on and on. Tourist have been exiting the BVI for years yet, they stand up and say the ECONOMY IS ROBUST.... ROBUST my [censored]!
George and stormjib are exactly right, unfortunately.

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: Twanger] #91556
03/28/2016 09:35 PM
03/28/2016 09:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 402
St Thomas, USVI
K
Kimber Offline
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Kimber  Offline
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K
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 402
St Thomas, USVI
Two things Twanger-
First, Cuvée also has a water maker and ice maker to enjoy on your next trip.
Second, the SVI is terrible. Please repeat that. Terrible!!! That is the proper story to spread in order to prevent the hordes from discovering what you and I know. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: Kimber] #91557
03/28/2016 10:46 PM
03/28/2016 10:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,119
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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warren460  Offline
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Ontario, Canada
Svi is not so exciting. Shortage of beach bars and restaurants


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 and Lagoon 450, (both part of the Charter Caribe fleet (all inclusive-crewed charters) based in St Thomas USVI https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
A TTOL sponsor
Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: warren460] #91558
03/29/2016 07:30 AM
03/29/2016 07:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,647
St. John, USVI
RickG Offline
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St. John, USVI
The beach bar in my dinghy works great at the SVI. The food in our onboard restaurant is also better than 95% of the restaurants in the BVI. What we did find were free anchorages that emptied out, except for cruisers, before sunset. We also had great fishing, snorkeling and hiking. We're looking forward to heading back.

Cheers, RickG


S/V Echoes, 2003 Benetau 423
St. John, USVI
Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: RickG] #91559
03/29/2016 12:05 PM
03/29/2016 12:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,098
Maryland
Twanger Offline
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Twanger  Offline
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Maryland
RickG - yes. That's exactly the way we see it too. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: Twanger] #91560
03/29/2016 12:17 PM
03/29/2016 12:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 124
Fairfax, VA
GW248 Offline
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Fairfax, VA
Does anyone know of any power cat bare boat charters out of the USVI? I did some searching but couldn't find any.

Rick

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: gordaguy2] #91561
03/30/2016 02:18 PM
03/30/2016 02:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 735
Middleburg, VA
cwoody Offline
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Middleburg, VA
So how do you define a "sleep aboard" ?

Any time you sleep on-board while tied up at a dock? Good luck with that.

SunSail will not have this issue. They do no have a sleep aboard policy. All charters start at 6pm and You are required to book an extra day if you want to board on the day you arrive.

They should also tax the boats with air conditioning. Never had all these "sleep aboards" before all the boats got shore AC.


Chuck W.
BVI Pics

[Linked Image]

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: warren460] #91562
03/30/2016 09:11 PM
03/30/2016 09:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 402
St Thomas, USVI
K
Kimber Offline
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Kimber  Offline
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St Thomas, USVI
Quote
warren460 said:
Svi is not so exciting. Shortage of beach bars and restaurants


Yes!!! Stick with that and repeat frequently.

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: Kimber] #91563
03/31/2016 12:57 PM
03/31/2016 12:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,098
Maryland
Twanger Offline
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Twanger  Offline
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Maryland
Yeah, it's hot, there's water everywhere, that fine white beach sand gets into everything... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: denverd0n] #91564
04/01/2016 07:37 AM
04/01/2016 07:37 AM
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Posts: 209
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Tarroc Offline
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Minister Walwyn has a dog in this fight--he owns the hotel at Moorings base and has had his occupancy rates severely effected by the Moorings sleep-aboard/evening start policy.

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: Tarroc] #91565
04/01/2016 10:20 AM
04/01/2016 10:20 AM
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Posts: 1,049
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StormJib Offline
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It just a proposed increase on the taxes already on the books. Today BVI boat rentals(whether you sleep there or not) are taxed at 7% the idea floated is to raise that 3% to 10% of the boat rental. Europe is +/- 20 percent of the total charter cost in direct tax.

Minister of Education Myron Walwyn yesterday said he wants the administration to increase the hotel accommodation tax from 7 percent to 10, and go after the people sleeping on boats to ensure they also pay taxes.

“The truth really is, you have more people sleeping on sea than what we have on land. And so now the government needs to re-position itself to make sure that we collect that money,” Walwyn continued.

Re: Sleep aboards to be taxed? [Re: Tarroc] #91566
04/01/2016 02:08 PM
04/01/2016 02:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,152
Rincón PR
casailor53 Offline
Traveler
casailor53  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,152
Rincón PR
Quote
Tarroc said:
Minister Walwyn has a dog in this fight--he owns the hotel at Moorings base and has had his occupancy rates severely effected by the Moorings sleep-aboard/evening start policy.

Not exactly true. He manages those properties.


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