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Surviving Charter companies #229632
07/10/2020 11:49 AM
07/10/2020 11:49 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14
Mukilteo, WA
NWsailor Offline OP
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Mukilteo, WA
We had a bareboat charter booked for April, 2020 with VSV (Vacances Sous Voiles) that was rescheduled to this November after the lockdowns.
We were recently informed VSV is going out of business, due to lockdowns.
We went through a broker, VI Sailing, and they are doing a great job of supporting us through all of this.

What other BVI boat charters have closed?
Any thoughts who will survive, if BVI doesn’t open up in September?

BVI Sponsors
Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #229637
07/10/2020 01:23 PM
07/10/2020 01:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 84
The Beautiful BVI
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Brent Offline
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The Beautiful BVI
Ahoy Captain,
Booked a week in July '20 yesterday, and a week in Feb '21 last week, and a week in Jan '21 the week before.
I have survived and prospered through 9/11, the Recession, and Cat 5 Irma.
I am looking forward to offering Guests the Safest and Healthiest Vacations in the World next charter season.
Fair Winds, Brent from The Captains Compass

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #229640
07/10/2020 02:05 PM
07/10/2020 02:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 903
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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Memphis, BVI, CT
Two factors here: first, there has been no confirmation that the BVI will be open to tourists in September. So it's not clear how long any company needs to be able to survive.

Second factor is figuring out which companies are more or less solvent. I would wait until you know you can get in, and then see what's available.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #229673
07/11/2020 09:09 AM
07/11/2020 09:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
road town
sleepychef Offline
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I highly doubt the BVI will reopen before Novbember/December at the very earliest, they have been asking employers to pay stipends and look after their employees now they are telling our employees to go home.

The economy from the government side will surive so they won't budge and will let the outer islands empty of staff before they even consider opening the borders. I hope a vaccine is found as it may be the only way out for the BVI to accept travellers from the USA.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #229714
07/12/2020 06:11 AM
07/12/2020 06:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,764
Bradenton, FL
Winterstale Offline
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Yep. I am thinking our November trip is a no go....


[Linked Image]

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: Winterstale] #229722
07/12/2020 10:20 AM
07/12/2020 10:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 416
Kannapolis, NC
ndfaninnc Offline
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Kannapolis, NC
Originally Posted by Winterstale
Yep. I am thinking our November trip is a no go....


As am I.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #229724
07/12/2020 10:42 AM
07/12/2020 10:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 59
Mill Valley, CA
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Husker Offline
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Moorings has not closed. However, I believe they have let go most of their BVI staff and crews. Some crews are basically stuck due to travel restrictions and remain living aboard. Moorings is still making monthly payments to their boat owners in spite of zero revenue. Fingers crossed BVI will open to tourists this fall.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #229733
07/12/2020 11:50 AM
07/12/2020 11:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 138
Ontario, Canada
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henryv Offline
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Horizon have posted a video on their Facebook page about their current operations and they indicate a Nov 2 opening date.


Henryv
Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #229735
07/12/2020 12:23 PM
07/12/2020 12:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 903
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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The issue here is advance planning, or lack thereof. They cannot announce on Oct. 25 that American tourists can enter starting Nov. 1, with whatever restrictions are deemed necessary. They need to get their testing up and running, then announce by the end of July when different groups will be allowed in: work permit holders, right to reside, property owners, charterers, etc. Pending a Covid outbreak of other unforeseen circumstance, of course. If they already know that no how, no way will they allow anyone in before Jan. 1, then say that.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #229746
07/12/2020 04:40 PM
07/12/2020 04:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 57
Hillsborough, NC
OceanSong Offline
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TMM is open and booking local charters in the BVI. TMM has also helped owners move boats over to the USVI if requested, while the BVI is locked down. There are several TMM boats out this week in both BVI and USVI waters.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #229762
07/13/2020 06:05 AM
07/13/2020 06:05 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,693
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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If TMM moves a boat to the USVI how are they moving it back?
George

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: Husker] #229765
07/13/2020 07:04 AM
07/13/2020 07:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 674
Washington DC
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bailau Online content
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Originally Posted by Husker
Moorings has not closed. However, I believe they have let go most of their BVI staff and crews. Some crews are basically stuck due to travel restrictions and remain living aboard. Moorings is still making monthly payments to their boat owners in spite of zero revenue. Fingers crossed BVI will open to tourists this fall.


They let go 139 people at BVI base and are using charter credits to fund guaranteed owner payments...

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: GeorgeC1] #229864
07/15/2020 10:09 AM
07/15/2020 10:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 57
Hillsborough, NC
OceanSong Offline
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Originally Posted by GeorgeC1
If TMM moves a boat to the USVI how are they moving it back?
George


A couple of local day charter companies have managed to obtain permission from the Government in the BVI and in the USVI to deliver boats between the two countries without them being required to go ashore or have any contact with people in the USVI or the BVI, depending on the final delivery destination. This allows them to return from the USVI to the BVI, or vice-versa, without the requirement to quarantine. When they do a delivery they supply the skipper and a mate for the yacht, they supply the chase boat and fuel for that and they take care of all of the clearance costs in both the BVI and USVI which represent $300.00 of the $1,800.00 total. $1500.00 is the actual delivery fee and covers the 3 people, chase boat and fuel.

A couple of TMM boats are cruising in the USVI at this time. One is Sea Tiger, whose owner Deepcut, posts here often. A mutual friend is on Sea Tiger now, torturing many of us by posting his photos on FB.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #229865
07/15/2020 10:15 AM
07/15/2020 10:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,693
GA/NC
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Thanks for the info. Do you have the name of the delivery company. Are there any boat disinfecting requirements?
George

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: GeorgeC1] #229867
07/15/2020 10:30 AM
07/15/2020 10:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 463
Soper's Hole Marina, Tortola
SurfandSail Offline
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Soper's Hole Marina, Tortola
Island Time out of Nanny Cay is doing the deliveries.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: GeorgeC1] #229892
07/15/2020 01:27 PM
07/15/2020 01:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 57
Hillsborough, NC
OceanSong Offline
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Originally Posted by GeorgeC1
Thanks for the info. Do you have the name of the delivery company. Are there any boat disinfecting requirements?
George


I believe Island Time is correct and I don't know about disinfecting procedures or requirements.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #234173
09/10/2020 11:28 AM
09/10/2020 11:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 16
CA
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jimmyb Offline
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We used charter company Boats at Sea. We chartered Lady Fiona and was cancelled in early July due to covid. Horrible experience and still no deposit returned to us.
Do NOT use Boats at Sea and Lady Fiona! SHAME ON THEM!

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: OceanSong] #234193
09/10/2020 03:31 PM
09/10/2020 03:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,218
Colorado and Sailing the World
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Wow, $1,800 to move a vessel from the BVI's to the USVI. At least those with boats stranded in the BVI's have an option, that is the good news I guess.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #234195
09/10/2020 04:43 PM
09/10/2020 04:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 112
Englewood, Florida
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DaveF Offline
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Englewood, Florida
I am just looking at the site now from some time ago as I dropped my late June Charter in March. All this is very sad. I am so sorry for all of you that own property or boats. It is just as sad for all of those that want to vacation in BVI. I will not comment on the "issues" but I do believe it is time to open up globally. That is just my little Ol' Opinion.

For me I can only say that I will not charter till I see others doing so and no issues. I am sure many others in the "same boat". I can only hope for a V curve for opening and return to some sense of normality.

I want to get back to the BVI.


Dave
Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #234203
09/10/2020 09:08 PM
09/10/2020 09:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
road town
sleepychef Offline
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$1100 to move a boat with Tendertoo

Last edited by sleepychef; 09/10/2020 09:09 PM.
Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #234281
09/12/2020 07:28 AM
09/12/2020 07:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,077
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline
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South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
Latest government update, which did very little, allowed a few more business openings but only for 4 hours per day. That is not a recipe for success. No idea when they expect to open for tourists nor do I expect an opening soon. Sad

Government workers are getting full pay. Most stay home. No pressure on them! No pressure to open either.

Last edited by tpcook; 09/12/2020 07:30 AM.

tpcook
Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #234284
09/12/2020 07:43 AM
09/12/2020 07:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,126
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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I wonder how sales of new charter boats are doing.


Having 2 major business interruption events in 2.5 years must be terrible for new boat sales.

I also wonder what provides more cash flow to the charter companies. The sale of the boats or the operation of a fleet.


Last edited by warren460; 09/12/2020 07:44 AM.

Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show) and Lagoon 450, (both part of the Charter Caribe fleet (all inclusive charters) -St Thomas USVI https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #234296
09/12/2020 08:34 AM
09/12/2020 08:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,693
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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The Moorings which I suspect actually generates most of their profit through yacht sales is having a great sales year. In fact they are sold out on many types. The days of big price reductions on already built yachts are gone for the moment.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: DaveF] #234297
09/12/2020 08:37 AM
09/12/2020 08:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 9
Gainesville
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Bo Scott Offline
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Dave, for us that have deposits tied up for October and November, we just have to reschedule and hope the next date goes off.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: DaveF] #234301
09/12/2020 08:55 AM
09/12/2020 08:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 527
Apex, NC
agrimsrud Offline
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Originally Posted by DaveF
For me I can only say that I will not charter till I see others doing so and no issues. I am sure many others in the "same boat". I can only hope for a V curve for opening and return to some sense of normality.


If you want to sail the USVI is still open. And it's not shabby at all.


Life's short - sail more!
Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: warren460] #234303
09/12/2020 09:01 AM
09/12/2020 09:01 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 527
Apex, NC
agrimsrud Offline
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Originally Posted by warren460
I wonder how sales of new charter boats are doing



When I ordered my new boat in July the wait time had gone from 15 months to about 5. That probably gives you a pretty good indication.


Life's short - sail more!
Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: agrimsrud] #234319
09/12/2020 09:58 AM
09/12/2020 09:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,757
U.K. and Spain
Jeannius Offline
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Originally Posted by agrimsrud
Originally Posted by warren460
I wonder how sales of new charter boats are doing



When I ordered my new boat in July the wait time had gone from 15 months to about 5. That probably gives you a pretty good indication.

A friend of mine ordered a Lagoon 50, not for charter, about 6 months ago. Delivery was originally scheduled for August 2021 and has now slipped to September 2021. Not a bad delay given all the chaos going on. I believe 50 ft and over Lagoons are made in a different factory from < 50 ft so perhaps that is the difference.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: Jeannius] #234332
09/12/2020 11:48 AM
09/12/2020 11:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,126
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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The Lagoon 50+ is made in Bordeaux.

Our Lagoon 50 is available for charter starting in November based in St Thomas USVI.

I agree that USVI is not too shabby.

Last edited by warren460; 09/12/2020 11:52 AM.

Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show) and Lagoon 450, (both part of the Charter Caribe fleet (all inclusive charters) -St Thomas USVI https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #234334
09/12/2020 12:10 PM
09/12/2020 12:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 333
Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin Offline
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Moorings yacht sales are going very well and are in fact helping offset losses from guaranteed payment contracts.


M4000 "Lio Kai"
Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: MrEZgoin] #234337
09/12/2020 12:30 PM
09/12/2020 12:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 674
Washington DC
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bailau Online content
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Originally Posted by MrEZgoin
Moorings yacht sales are going very well and are in fact helping offset losses from guaranteed payment contracts.


As is the fact they held charterers money which keeps the scheme going...for now

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #234338
09/12/2020 12:42 PM
09/12/2020 12:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 903
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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Bailau, that is a good point. At some point, that lost revenue needs to be made up. How will the charter companies dig themselves out of that hole? Some people lost their deposits, but what about the rescheduled charters?

If past is prelude, restaurants will raise their prices to try to recover. I fear we're in for interesting times.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #234342
09/12/2020 01:42 PM
09/12/2020 01:42 PM
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Posts: 674
Washington DC
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bailau Online content
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i was thinking more of "charter credits" as I have as opposed to forfeited deposits...but you raise a good point

I think it ends like every other ponzi scheme...

Using your restaurant analogy...imagine opening back up your restaurant and the first 6 months (and still counting) of customers eat free using the "credits" from when it was closed and you not only have your existing overhead but have now added back staff...

I don't see how they can raise prices as I cant see demand for chartering coming out of this higher than before for a multitude of reasons

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #234346
09/12/2020 03:01 PM
09/12/2020 03:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,126
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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Prices have to go up a cross the board. Restaurant prices, charter boat prices return to owners etc.

If owners don’t get a reasonable contribution, and likely they are not, then who would put a boat in charter.


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show) and Lagoon 450, (both part of the Charter Caribe fleet (all inclusive charters) -St Thomas USVI https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #234347
09/12/2020 03:22 PM
09/12/2020 03:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 903
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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Bailau, expect it to look like every other cash- or revenue-strapped business: deferred maintenance, cost-cutting big and small, reduced service. After Irma, no one went into this sitting on a pile of cash. I wonder what kind of financial shape the resorts are in.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #240158
11/18/2020 02:12 PM
11/18/2020 02:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 16
CA
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jimmyb Offline
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I have brought this up previously but We have still not received or deposit from Charter Company Boats at Sea... Boats at Sea and 62' Lady Fiona have ignored us since July and have Not returned our Deposit!
Looking forward to going back to the BVI'S with a reputable Charter Company.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #240160
11/18/2020 02:14 PM
11/18/2020 02:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
road town
sleepychef Offline
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I thought you said previous you had recieved your money back but not the agents fee? So its the agents that have kept your money not the boat? Is that correct?

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: NWsailor] #240161
11/18/2020 03:04 PM
11/18/2020 03:04 PM
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i watch the used cat market, good indicator of economic sentiment since the pool of interested parties is vast. it did get a bump when rates were dropped but that seems to be waning.

Re: Surviving Charter companies [Re: sleepychef] #240174
11/18/2020 04:23 PM
11/18/2020 04:23 PM
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CA
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jimmyb Offline
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That's the problem... We cannot get a straight answer and when we pushed Boats at Sea for an answer that's when they went dark on us and we cannot get any feedback from Lady Fiona!

Last edited by jimmyb; 11/18/2020 04:35 PM.

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