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Navigare Warning #315758
03/17/2024 10:25 AM
03/17/2024 10:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 168
Roseville, Minnesota
Swifty Offline OP
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Swifty  Offline OP
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Roseville, Minnesota
I very rarely post, but I saw something last night that has me worried. Are charter companies not checking sailing resumes any longer? Last night around sunset, a Navigare Lagoon 46 with 5 men came into Kelly Cove (Norman Island) and attempted to pick up a day mooring that isn't designed for overnight use. But instead of standing at the bow of the boat, they were on the stern steps trying to snag the line from the side. It looked like they had one line running from the stern cleat and then they initially tied it off to the starboard bow cleat. As they tried to figure out how the lines were supposed to go, they had the boat in gear with no one at the helm and it continued to spin around the ball for 10 - 15 minutes. Eventually, they got the starboard line corrected but the ball was still on the outside rather than between the hulls. Then they ran another line from the forward port cleat on the outside and tried to push it under the hull with the boat hook. Eventually, they got the ball in front of the boat but the lines were still on the outsides of the hulls. Finally, they attached the anchor bridle to the entire thing and went inside.

It's bad enough that Navigare put one of their own boats in danger. But if the wind had picked up, this boat could've come loose and done significant damage to the other boats nearby. It's my understanding that Navigare has way too many boats in their fleet and are now offering deep discounts to get them out on the water. Based on what I witnessed last night, it would appear that they don't care who they rent to either, as long as they're making money.

Here's a link to a video we captured...

[video:youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/EHWUfRrgD90?si=NZAmXbCD__SH75gY[/video]

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Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315765
03/17/2024 10:51 AM
03/17/2024 10:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,178
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MIDiver Offline
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Unbelievable. We have witnessed more bad behavior (anchoring on coral, mooring issues, navigation issues, driving super fast in mooring fields) from Navigare boats over the past 3 years than any others. Extremely concerning. I suggest you send Navigare BVI the video.

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315772
03/17/2024 11:34 AM
03/17/2024 11:34 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 886
Louisville, KY
NoelHall Offline
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Louisville, KY
Kelly's Cove is one of my favorites. Unfortunately, the couple of balls marking dive sites are very close by and become attractive to boaters perhaps believing they are part of the mooring field. Regardless, it appears the crew lacked the basic skills to operate the boat and secure an appropriate mooring ball. Did they stay overnight? I just wondered if the individual collecting mooring balls fees for the night advised them they were not on an overnight ball?


Noel Hall
"It is humbling indeed, to discover my own opinion is only correct less than 50% of the time."

www.noelhall.com
Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315773
03/17/2024 11:50 AM
03/17/2024 11:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,697
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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Memphis, BVI, CT
One night this week two power cats overnighted on yellow mooring balls on Diamond Reef; I got photos. The next morning I paddled out and told two guys on one boat that yellow balls are for professional dive boats. They said they had a professional captain who had been doing this for ten years and knew what he was doing.

Boat identified, I called the charter company to speak with the manager, who was lovely. They redline that area unless there is a professional captain. These guys had hired their own captain, whom I had seen grab the ball. All this company's boats have trackers, and she said she would follow up. That boat stayed until noon, so 18 hours on a yellow ball.

The other boat was leaving, so I didn't try to follow up. Hoping word gets out people are being watched.

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: RatmansWife] #315779
03/17/2024 12:14 PM
03/17/2024 12:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,178
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MIDiver Offline
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Originally Posted by RatmansWife
One night this week two power cats overnighted on yellow mooring balls on Diamond Reef; I got photos. The next morning I paddled out and told two guys on one boat that yellow balls are for professional dive boats. They said they had a professional captain who had been doing this for ten years and knew what he was doing.

Boat identified, I called the charter company to speak with the manager, who was lovely. They redline that area unless there is a professional captain. These guys had hired their own captain, whom I had seen grab the ball. All this company's boats have trackers, and she said she would follow up. That boat stayed until noon, so 18 hours on a yellow ball.

The other boat was leaving, so I didn't try to follow up. Hoping word gets out people are being watched.


There is so much entitlement out there……

But I am confused - redlined or not the yellow balls are not for overnight use. By anyone.

Last edited by MIDiver; 03/17/2024 12:16 PM.
Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315781
03/17/2024 12:22 PM
03/17/2024 12:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,697
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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I believe the manager meant they aren't even allowed to anchor in that area unless there is a professional captain.That is another issue: anchoring too near the reef. I suspect some professional captains are more motivated by prospective tips than by protecting the reef, but I may be jaded.

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: RatmansWife] #315782
03/17/2024 12:49 PM
03/17/2024 12:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,178
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MIDiver Offline
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Originally Posted by RatmansWife
I believe the manager meant they aren't even allowed to anchor in that area unless there is a professional captain.That is another issue: anchoring too near the reef. I suspect some professional captains are more motivated by prospective tips than by protecting the reef, but I may be jaded.


Not jaded - spot on.

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315783
03/17/2024 01:12 PM
03/17/2024 01:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 168
Roseville, Minnesota
Swifty Offline OP
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Swifty  Offline OP
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Roseville, Minnesota
Following up on some of the questions and responses...

We saw someone stay overnight on one of the day moorings in Kelly Cove the last time we were here - about 2 months ago. That time, it looked like a personal boat and didn't appear that there was anyone on board. In that case, I wonder if they picked it because they knew they wouldn't be charged. On the Navigare boat last night, I suspect the men didn't know any better.

We said something to the guy who came to collect our mooring fee both times. He said there was nothing he could do but they would be facing a fine if caught. In the case of last night, I was even more concerned that a boat would go out without anyone on board who knew how to pick up a mooring ball. I wonder how the rest of their trip will go.

Also agreed on the anchoring of large yachts recently (80+ feet), and also very close to boats in mooring fields. Either people don't know any better or they don't seem to care.

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315791
03/17/2024 01:48 PM
03/17/2024 01:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,697
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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Memphis, BVI, CT
It is amazing: charter a boat for $10k plus a week, but grab a yellow ball to avoid paying $45!

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315792
03/17/2024 03:08 PM
03/17/2024 03:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,127
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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GeorgeC1  Online Content
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Yellow balls are dive balls with a 90 minute maximum like all NPS balls. Boats also often overnight on the NPS balls at Monkey point. The NPS balls are not a strong as the overnight balls.

Last edited by GeorgeC1; 03/17/2024 03:11 PM.
Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315816
03/17/2024 09:58 PM
03/17/2024 09:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,427
New Jersey, USA
DanS Offline
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DanS  Offline
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New Jersey, USA
Who are these doofuses!?

Beyond belief.

Thanks, Swifty, for the heads-up and the video.

Dan cheers

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315817
03/18/2024 12:09 AM
03/18/2024 12:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 10
Santa Clara, California
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AdventureAddict Offline
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Santa Clara, California
That definitely seems unsafe and pretty careless of Navigare to rent boats out to folks who clearly don't know how to properly tie up. I'm with the others - I'd definitely send that video to Navigare BVI to make them aware. It's concerning to think they might be pushing too many rentals without ensuring people are properly trained.

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315818
03/18/2024 12:54 AM
03/18/2024 12:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 1
SailStargazer Offline
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It’s definitely worth informing Navigare. If that was our boat, I would definitely have a serious talk with our charter management company.

Reminds me of one of our trips last year when we observed a father/teenage son attempt to pickup a ball DOWNWIND in about 15kts on the small mono they chartered from Moorings. The poor kid kid on the bow clearly had zero experience, nor did the father at the helm. It took them three attempts but they finally got hooked up. I was about to dinghy over and give them some friendly guidance as we feared for the son’s safety, but they raced off to a late afternoon snorkel at the Caves!

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315824
03/18/2024 07:16 AM
03/18/2024 07:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,127
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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GeorgeC1  Online Content
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The downwind pickup is used to showcase above average skills. It’s difficult to do correctly and puts you a cut above those who use the wind as a crutch for an easy pickup. It is best to executed in winds above 10 knots with lots of loudly shouted commands from the helm to show who is in charge and impress onlookers. If you really want to impress everyone combine the downwind pickup with lots of speed and slam the engine or engines into heavy reverse producing big clouds of black smoke! Extra points for rigging the bow lines after you grab the Mooring.

Last edited by GeorgeC1; 03/18/2024 07:23 AM.
Re: Navigare Warning [Re: GeorgeC1] #315869
03/18/2024 01:56 PM
03/18/2024 01:56 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 369
Close to the water as possible
Flotsam Offline
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Flotsam  Offline
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Close to the water as possible
Originally Posted by GeorgeC1
The downwind pickup is used to showcase above average skills. It’s difficult to do correctly and puts you a cut above those who use the wind as a crutch for an easy pickup. It is best to executed in winds above 10 knots with lots of loudly shouted commands from the helm to show who is in charge and impress onlookers. If you really want to impress everyone combine the downwind pickup with lots of speed and slam the engine or engines into heavy reverse producing big clouds of black smoke! Extra points for rigging the bow lines after you grab the Mooring.


I always award The Boaters Badge of Merit if someone goes overboard during the process as well.


Flotsam

Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.
Re: Navigare Warning [Re: GeorgeC1] #315880
03/18/2024 03:45 PM
03/18/2024 03:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 127
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TJTrippe Offline
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Probably their first real sailing trip after getting that two cereal box tops mail-in Captain’s Certificate.

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315889
03/18/2024 04:31 PM
03/18/2024 04:31 PM
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Posts: 1,178
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MIDiver Offline
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Well, Boaty Ball is raffling off Navigare weeks to the highest bidder……

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315890
03/18/2024 04:43 PM
03/18/2024 04:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,127
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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GeorgeC1  Online Content
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There is a private boat on the reef off Oil Nut Bay today.

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315903
03/18/2024 08:04 PM
03/18/2024 08:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 827
San Diego, CA
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gjconsult Offline
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San Diego, CA
How do you know it’s a Navigare charter boat? Does it have big letters somewhere, or logo on the main stack pack? Just curious

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: gjconsult] #315906
03/18/2024 08:35 PM
03/18/2024 08:35 PM
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Posts: 1,178
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MIDiver Offline
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Big logo on hull (near bow) can’t miss it.

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315910
03/18/2024 08:48 PM
03/18/2024 08:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,697
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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Navigare logo resembles a stylized star.

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Flotsam] #315959
03/19/2024 10:26 AM
03/19/2024 10:26 AM
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Posts: 107
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betsyg Offline
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Lots of contenders for the Darwin Award!!

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315960
03/19/2024 10:36 AM
03/19/2024 10:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,127
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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I once watched a guy in a power cat explode a ball at the Indians when he gunned it leaving and sucked the ball in the prop. Really loud bang and foam going everywhere. He never even slowed down let alone stop and access damage to the prop and out drive. There is a metal shank running through most balls.

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #315961
03/19/2024 10:49 AM
03/19/2024 10:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 168
Houston, TX
Matt W Offline
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Matt W  Offline
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Houston, TX
We advised a salty skipper on approach to pickup at the Indians that they were trying to grab a decommissioned ball. I supposed he didn't like being questioned by some younger folks in front of his crew. He reversed up to the ball, a crew member jumped in the water while still in reverse, and they threw a loop knot around the ball (since the pennant was removed). Didn't stick around to see how they got off the ball. Wish I had gotten the thing on video. (not Navigare for the record)

Re: Navigare Warning [Re: Swifty] #316183
03/21/2024 09:44 AM
03/21/2024 09:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 168
Roseville, Minnesota
Swifty Offline OP
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Swifty  Offline OP
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Update - I did reach out to Navigare via email on Sunday. I shared my concerns and the video we captured. No response.

I'd be very worried if I was an owner of a yacht in their fleet.


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