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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: tpcook]
#100757
06/16/2016 11:14 AM
06/16/2016 11:14 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999 Macon, Georgia
GlennA
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Not sure it is delayed "indefinitely" but they are definitely getting cold feet. There was a discussuion on a BVI Facebook page Monday that may have had an effect. It was widely participated in and the vast majority was opposed to the extension. I was suprised to see some post questioning the project from people who had previously been in favor. BTW, the greenhouses are back in the news with a proposal for $1.5 mill to replace the covers and equip a couple of them. However, the royalty situation with IBT is still not resolved.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: GlennA]
#100760
06/17/2016 08:08 AM
06/17/2016 08:08 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,267 Vero Beach, Fl and South Sound...
tpcook
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re: The Greenhouses. So they now need to replace the covers yet the greenhouses have not grown 1 tomato. 1.5 million buys a lot of tomatoes. This is another BAD idea. Wait till the first hurricane comes and destroys the greenhouses. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif" alt="" />
How can a project be undertaken where you don't own the technology? <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by tpcook; 06/17/2016 08:10 AM.
tpcook
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#100762
06/17/2016 10:36 AM
06/17/2016 10:36 AM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,214 Toledo, OH, USA
Orange_Burst
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GeorgeC1 said: So with the airport on hold we can expect the government to jump into the ferry situation with both feet and fix it! G <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />
Colleen
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: Orange_Burst]
#100763
06/17/2016 11:18 AM
06/17/2016 11:18 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,832 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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No, it's <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Rofl.gif" alt="" />
Carol Hill
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#100764
06/17/2016 11:29 AM
06/17/2016 11:29 AM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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GeorgeC1 said: So with the airport on hold we can expect the government to jump into the ferry situation with both feet and fix it! G Highly unlikely. The leadership of the British Virgin Islands do not want the visitors to the BVI to ride the cross border ferries.
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: StormJib]
#100765
06/17/2016 12:04 PM
06/17/2016 12:04 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999 Macon, Georgia
GlennA
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And why not considering the ferries bring more than 70% of the over night visitors and even when AE was flying they were bringing more than half? Even if by some miricle some airline decides to make 2 flights a day into Beef Island the ferries will still carry more than half.
The BVI IS getting a reputation for being hard to get to but it is not because of limited air access. It is because of a crappy ferry service.
The reason the ferry service cannot be fixed is because the government is affraid to go against the 3 or 4 families that own the ferry companies who carry on petty competitions to the detriment of the visitors and who have milked them of cash to the detriment of the whole country.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: GlennA]
#100766
06/17/2016 02:55 PM
06/17/2016 02:55 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,052 GA/NC
GeorgeC1
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: Will_L]
#100768
06/17/2016 03:39 PM
06/17/2016 03:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999 Macon, Georgia
GlennA
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The frustrating thing is that almost unique to ferry systems in the world the STT/Tortola route can make an exceptionally good profit without any subsidies. It has an almost captive market, a break even load factor of about 40% and a only 75 days in the year where the passenger load drops below 50%, revenue of $1.65 per passenger mile and close to $1.20 per seat mile. These are numbers that airline executive could only immagine in their wildest dreams.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#100769
06/17/2016 04:14 PM
06/17/2016 04:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 826 Tortola, BVI
LianeLeTendre
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GeorgeC1 said: Glen nailed it! G He sure did. We should all get together, form an investment company and then approach one of the local companies with a business plan that will put them head and shoulders above the rest.
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: tpcook]
#100770
06/17/2016 04:47 PM
06/17/2016 04:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 260 Daniel Island
Guineaman
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tpcook said: looks like the airport project is delayed. Sounds like there is no money in the bank. Maybe reality is winning the day. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> But it looks like they're building something serious for cyberspace. Caribbean Journal
Bill on Daniel Island
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: LianeLeTendre]
#100771
06/17/2016 05:25 PM
06/17/2016 05:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999 Macon, Georgia
GlennA
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I was told once that the only way to get in the ferry business in the BVI is to marry into it. You can't do it with just one company. The other two would risk bankruptcy to try to kill it they way they did when Bobby Hodge started. The only way I can see it happening would be for someone with deep pockets to present the three companies with a deal they can't refuse. A 10 year lease to own deal on 6 new 95 passenger fast cats on the condition that they form a co-op with a centralized booking office so that passengers would always be placed on the next boat going. A common ticketing office at each termial would save money and could anticipate when demand required bringing on an extra boat. If managed correctly no passenger would have more than a hour wait. The companies would rotate runs through the day and receive a base for each run plus a per passenger overide at the end of each month that would be penalized for failing to make a run. That way there would be no motive for canceling a run due to lack of demand or jockying around to get the choice time slot.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: Guineaman]
#100772
06/17/2016 05:26 PM
06/17/2016 05:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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Guineaman said:tpcook said: looks like the airport project is delayed. Sounds like there is no money in the bank. Maybe reality is winning the day. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> But it looks like they're building something serious for cyberspace. Caribbean Journal Maybe too little, too late, in the wrong direction? This is one of the key priorities that came out of the McKinney study and others. The musts are regular jet services to the US and best in class internet and telecommunications. To attract and keep "discerting visitors" they must be able to easily get in and out without hassle and be able to access networks just as they can at home or at the office> "First and foremost, the jurisdiction should prioritise building an environment that offers convenient air and sea transportation and seamless telecommunications. The Terrence B. Lettsome airport upgrade, and better use of shuttle connections to the Cyril E. King International Airport in nearby St. Thomas, should continue to be fast-tracked."
ST. Thomas and STT refused to go along with the shuttle from STT. Like the tomatoes, I have not idea where this local content value ever comes from.
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: GlennA]
#100773
06/18/2016 08:12 AM
06/18/2016 08:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,530 Ya never know...
HillsideView
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Ya never know...
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"If managed correctly". Mission Impossible.
My foot fits right into my shoe and my shoe will fit right into your...
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: Will_L]
#100774
06/18/2016 08:49 AM
06/18/2016 08:49 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,267 Vero Beach, Fl and South Sound...
tpcook
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RE: Ferry service at 5 PM to VG. This is a realty as you know and Speedy does a great job with his ferry service to STT and also service to/from Roadtown and also to/from Beef Island. Ferries are clean, run ontime and comfortable. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />
Roadtown Fast Ferry does a good job with the ferry that comes down from Ma each year. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> If only the BVI government would help and improve on what is working, there would be a decent ferry service.
tpcook
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: TomSW]
#100776
06/18/2016 10:54 AM
06/18/2016 10:54 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999 Macon, Georgia
GlennA
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Actually, Government intervention in the form enforcing service level requirements through its power of granting and regulating public franchises is key. Currently the worst possible combination of government cronyism and abandonment of its regulatory responsibility exists.
That is true on both ends of the route. While the STT taxi associations are an obsticle to a unified service from the airport to Tortola, the real problem is the close relationship between one of the ferry companies and the USVI Ports Authority. As far as the taxi objection is concerned, the current franchises expire in January 2018 and the ST. Thomas Dept of Tourism, the Hotel Association and the Chamber of Commerce are lined up to weaken the exclusivity even more than they managed in 2012. In 2012 the taxis at STT were required to dedicate several lanes exclusively to individual resorts. Hopefully the same will be required for the ferry terminal in future regulations. Also, with a reliable ferry and central ticketing the rate of advanced reservation will increase allowing the ferry system to provide limosine service to and from the airport.
The real problem is landing rights at Blyden terminal and Smiths and Native Son both have a lot of influence with the USVI Ports Authority. Unless they are brought into a cooperative arangement any improvement in the ferry service will be impossible.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: HillsideView]
#100778
06/18/2016 12:00 PM
06/18/2016 12:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,170 Rincón PR
casailor53
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HillsideView said: "If managed correctly". Mission Impossible. I was going to say the same. Management in the BVI by BVIslanders is non-existant.
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: casailor53]
#100779
06/18/2016 12:24 PM
06/18/2016 12:24 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999 Macon, Georgia
GlennA
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That would be one of the advantages of a lease to own deal. The outside financial backer would have to have a large say in the management. Unfortunately that is the major drawback to my proposal. The recent IBAHNHAR reaction to RTW/Riteway selling to CostULess is an indication that the islands will forever be trapped in their own greed and short sightedness.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: tpcook]
#100782
06/27/2016 09:25 PM
06/27/2016 09:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,267 Vero Beach, Fl and South Sound...
tpcook
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Just did a Goggle search for Chinese projects in the Caribbean. What a mess. Lawsuits on many projects, overruns on projects,Chinese workers having a sideline in Antigua removing all the lobsters, hotels have no lobsters
Bottom line the BVI best make sure about this project. Design of the project must be set in stone, no changes. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />
tpcook
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: JD_Midnight]
#100786
06/28/2016 03:26 PM
06/28/2016 03:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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JD_Midnight said: Just curious... Nobody mentions Seaborne. They have multiple flights daily and we have used for several years without any problems. Uses to even have a quite lane for security though now that they are in the main terminal that perk has gone. Certainly not every hour but some selection. Is there a problem with them? Seaborne may be a great match for many. But, the new table stakes for 21st Century holiday travel is direct jet service from the US mainland. Aruba, Barbados, Cayman Islands, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Jamaica, St. Kitts, St. Lucia and St. Martin plus Antigua, Bermuda, St. Vincent have all reads the reports and are making the investments to improve direct jet service from Canada and the US Mainland. The BVI will to it is just a matter of where, how, and when. Each month of delay only serves to increase the cost and disruption when the time comes. If and when the five jetports in Cuba open to US tourist the entire industry will change. There will be some domino effect there. The same could be true if Puerto Rico decides to be their future on visitor dollars.... There is already some massive very high end hotel investment in play there. The same with marina services.
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: JD_Midnight]
#100788
06/28/2016 05:13 PM
06/28/2016 05:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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JD_Midnight said: Thanks. The reason I come to BVI is the sailing... If not would go to,one of the destinations mentioned. Puerto Rico is great. Those are all bigger places with much more options and population base. Can t imagine bvi ever attracting large plane loads of folks... And if it did Imfor,one would find somewhere else. I have never heard anyone talking about planes larger than the +/-200 passenger 737-800. The strategic plan is to hold on to the visitors who come today along with a transitioning to a more "discerning" visitor spending more per day. The plan has never been to dramatically grow the number of visitors. There is hope for a longer peak season(10 months) with more repeat visitors using the jet services for more frequent trips. Done well the BVI will be less crowded with greater revenues. That is only possible with direct consistent access from the US.
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: JD_Midnight]
#100790
06/28/2016 07:44 PM
06/28/2016 07:44 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
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JD_Midnight said: Just curious... Nobody mentions Seaborne. They have multiple flights daily and we have used for several years without any problems. Uses to even have a quite lane for security though now that they are in the main terminal that perk has gone. Certainly not every hour but some selection. Is there a problem with them? We do the same with Cape Air. And frankly, the smaller planes allow for more frequent flights giving more options for timing. Larger planes would mean fewer flights and fewer options. And I don't think it woudl reduce the cost either.
Matt
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: maytrix]
#100791
06/29/2016 11:27 AM
06/29/2016 11:27 AM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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maytrix said:JD_Midnight said: Just curious... Nobody mentions Seaborne. They have multiple flights daily and we have used for several years without any problems. Uses to even have a quite lane for security though now that they are in the main terminal that perk has gone. Certainly not every hour but some selection. Is there a problem with them? We do the same with Cape Air. And frankly, the smaller planes allow for more frequent flights giving more options for timing. Larger planes would mean fewer flights and fewer options. And I don't think it woudl reduce the cost either. None of this was ever about reducing costs or prices. The plans are all about increasing convenience and reducing hassles for the travelers who are less price sensitive. Mexico, DR, Cuba will win the battles for the lower cost travelers. The BVI has no hope of ever competing in that league. All that said when it comes to air travel do not discount the cost each time a plane must go up and go down. Those costs come from airport charges, air frame cost with each cycle, engine costs, enormous fuel burn along with all the labor and time loss. Every airline must get to +/-10 cents a passenger mile to survive. No airline can do that with short hop flights anymore. So in theory the efficient market will end up costing less to fly direct. Whether those savings are passed onto the customer is a product management decision. Figure out how much you are paying per mile for those Seaborne seats and services. Airport fees, fuel to go up, and labor going slow all add up to a money loser for the operator. So AA punted along with all the other majors who offered short haul services. Labor costs are drowning those still trying to hang on.
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Re: Airport project is delayed
[Re: StormJib]
#100793
06/29/2016 03:32 PM
06/29/2016 03:32 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
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Some airlines may run form the regional segments, while others (see Cape Air) base their whole business on them.
It seems based on your arguments that the wealthy who are too important to risk their lives on small places are really the only ones that need direct service. Anyone else who has the money can simply fly to San Juan and pay the price for the regional flight. Or fly to St. Thomas and pay the price for a water taxi.
Because if direct flights would only come from Miami or places near there, its still two legs for most. So maybe I'm just a fool, but I don't see how that benefits most people.
Seems to me to charter boat business does well in the seasons it should do well. How do the hotels do? How many more people can they take? What aren't the coming today? Have these questions really been asked?
I think the answer is simple - many people are simply unaware of the BVI. I knew about St. Thomas - honeymooned there. Didn't know a thing about the BVI at that time. It wasn't until 8-9 years later that we went to St. John with friends that we found out more about the BVI.
Maybe if the BVI spent a portion of the airport money on advertising, they'd attract more people. Or as has been mentioned plenty, on a better ferry service. St John seems to do well with Ferry service only..
Matt
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