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Boatyball #176180
11/23/2018 08:49 PM
11/23/2018 08:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 303
S/V Event Horizon
FRANKIE2 Offline OP
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FRANKIE2  Offline OP
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S/V Event Horizon
How is this going to work?

BVI Sponsors
Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176181
11/23/2018 09:26 PM
11/23/2018 09:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Virginia
B
b6fischer Offline
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Virginia
sounds simple. Download app, reserve and pay.

https://boatyball.com/about.html

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176182
11/23/2018 09:31 PM
11/23/2018 09:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3
Chapel Hill, NC
T
TarHeelDave Offline
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TarHeelDave  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3
Chapel Hill, NC
It will all end in tears.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176183
11/23/2018 09:33 PM
11/23/2018 09:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 483
Austin, TX
TackingAg Offline
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Austin, TX
Was just about to post about this. Would love to hear how this goes. I can imagine the first time somebody is told to get off the ball at sunset b/c its reserved for a late-comer.


~~~~_/)~~~~
"The TTOL Member Map Guy"
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Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176184
11/23/2018 09:56 PM
11/23/2018 09:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 517
Georgia & South Carolina
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Deepcut Offline
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Georgia & South Carolina
How much of a premium? or is it a cost savings to Moor Secure not having to have a dingy collect fee? Monitoring could easily be by video monitoring.

Agree there may be some confusion by someone picking up "reserved" ball and when the "rightful" boat comes along, how will it be settled? (and crew may be gone from boat).

Will follow closely.


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (Lagoon 42)
Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176185
11/23/2018 10:07 PM
11/23/2018 10:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 303
S/V Event Horizon
FRANKIE2 Offline OP
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S/V Event Horizon
$35. How are you to know if a mooring has been reserved? Is someone going to go out and put a "RESERVED" card on the mooring? I can imagine some fireworks. $35 is the total cost, so an extra $5.

Last edited by FRANKIE2; 11/23/2018 10:09 PM.
Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176192
11/24/2018 04:05 AM
11/24/2018 04:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
C
Christo Offline
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So...these are new balls in addition to the Moor Seacure ones?

From the website that what it sounds like...

In which case no issue.

Re: Boatyball [Re: Deepcut] #176195
11/24/2018 08:05 AM
11/24/2018 08:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,595
VI,NY,AZ
sail445 Offline
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sail445  Offline
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VI,NY,AZ
Originally Posted by Deepcut
How much of a premium? or is it a cost savings to Moor Secure not having to have a dingy collect fee? Monitoring could easily be by video monitoring.

Agree there may be some confusion by someone picking up "reserved" ball and when the "rightful" boat comes along, how will it be settled? (and crew may be gone from boat).

Will follow closely.

A while back Moor Secure installed the moorings to belongers who had the seabed rights and they maintained them.
I’m curious if it’s the same today.
Possibly they prefer the new system due to haveing different mooring companies in some anchorage’s and eliminate the possibility of a competitor collecting the fee on one of theirs.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176196
11/24/2018 08:15 AM
11/24/2018 08:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
C
Christo Offline
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We absolutely hate this idea!

It's just a recipe for agro and fights as people have said, how will you know if a ball is reserved. What if you have no access to the app. Who is going to police it.

I don't understand what was wrong with the existing system! The earlier you get there...the better chance and choice of balls. That's fair. And if you want to sail longer and rock up late then use that heavy pointy thing connected to the chain on the bow of your boat...thats what it's for!

Re: Boatyball [Re: Christo] #176197
11/24/2018 08:38 AM
11/24/2018 08:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,595
VI,NY,AZ
sail445 Offline
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VI,NY,AZ
You’re right, its going to be a real fiasco especially since a lot of charterers today have a Jet Ski mentality.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176198
11/24/2018 09:55 AM
11/24/2018 09:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 141
Panama City Beach, Florida
xrayman67 Offline
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Panama City Beach, Florida
According to Boatyball Facebook, "We are going to have bay managers in each of the bays we are working with to help enforce. The new moorings will be very different then what is currently in the BVI so it will be obvious to boaters." and "We are installing new moorings that will be a different shape, color, and size from the standard white and blue that you find in the BVI. They will also be marked "Reservation Only".

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176200
11/24/2018 10:01 AM
11/24/2018 10:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 303
S/V Event Horizon
FRANKIE2 Offline OP
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S/V Event Horizon
Ok. I have the story right from the Boatyball people. These will be newly-installed moorings, a different shape and color than the standard moorings. They will be numbered. Someone in the host harbor, presumably the collector of standard mooring fees, will settle disputes and misunderstandings. The charter companies are supposed to be educating charter captains. I don't know who will inform private captains. Actually, this may work after a period of adjustment, as long as the original moorings are still available first-come, first-serve. I suspect there may be some nasty encounters at first.

KF Quinn MD

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176201
11/24/2018 10:34 AM
11/24/2018 10:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 157
WI. St. Thomas
TomSW Offline
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WI. St. Thomas
"We are going to have bay managers in each of the bays we are working with to help enforce."

Yeah...that'll work

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176204
11/24/2018 12:04 PM
11/24/2018 12:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
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Christo Offline
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Ok...this is sounding better! I will tentatively take back some of my initial negativity!

If what is already there, stays there and stays on a first-come-first-serve basis...then this would be an enhancement. If balls are numbered and clearly marked...then should be fine.

Yes there will be some issues. But as it is you always see some clown moor up to the 'PRIVATE DIVE BOAT' balls that are there and then get chased away at sunset!

Re: Boatyball [Re: Christo] #176209
11/24/2018 12:37 PM
11/24/2018 12:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 303
S/V Event Horizon
FRANKIE2 Offline OP
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S/V Event Horizon
The one issue that has not been addressed is what happens if a reserved ball has no reservation? Is there going to be some way to release it for general first come, first served use?

KF Quinn MD

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176226
11/24/2018 03:26 PM
11/24/2018 03:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,914
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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Ontario, Canada
I don’t see how many more balls could be added at cooper.

I bet we lose some moorings.


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 450
Re: Boatyball [Re: warren460] #176230
11/24/2018 03:51 PM
11/24/2018 03:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 303
S/V Event Horizon
FRANKIE2 Offline OP
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S/V Event Horizon
You are correct. I believe they are planning to replace the mooring balls closest to Cooper Island Beach Club with the new reserved moorings, so no net increase.

KF Quinn MD

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176238
11/24/2018 05:10 PM
11/24/2018 05:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 56
Toronto, ON
B
Bgs Offline
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Posts: 56
Toronto, ON
Is there a timeline?
We are there Dec17.

Cooper would be nice to book if it works as advertised.

Brian

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176244
11/24/2018 06:00 PM
11/24/2018 06:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 430
Charlotte, NC
DEL Offline
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DEL  Offline
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Posts: 430
Charlotte, NC
Something like this has been my dream for several years. The concept is great...the execution may be challenging. I will support anything that reduces worry about full mooring fields while trying to enjoy more of the BVI. I look forward to learning more.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176246
11/24/2018 06:34 PM
11/24/2018 06:34 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 823
JAX
jphart Offline
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jphart  Offline
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JAX
I keep looking for an April first dateline!

Let’s hope this is just a couple of web pages posted in jest.


JPH
I spent my money on booze, broads, and boats...the rest I wasted.
Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176251
11/24/2018 07:02 PM
11/24/2018 07:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,914
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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Posts: 1,914
Ontario, Canada
my concern is that you will be able to book the balls weeks in advance.

Not knowing where you will be or what the weather will be will make this very challenging.

People will push to get to an mooring where they have reserved and paid for a ball even if its not prudent or safe to do so.


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 450
Re: Boatyball [Re: warren460] #176256
11/24/2018 07:50 PM
11/24/2018 07:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 38
F
fromaway3774 Offline
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 38
I like and support the idea of being able to reserve a ball in advance, as long as the anchorages are monitored. This lets us enjoy more of the day sailing the boat vs racing to catch the last mooring by noon. As for paying in advance, that's no different from making a reservation for a mooring or a slip elsewhere. We had to walk away from a "paid for" reservation this summer due to weather. What's key is that the policy is clear and easy to understand. Besides, after paying for the cost of flights and the boat, a $35 mooring fee is not going to make or break the vacation.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176257
11/24/2018 07:53 PM
11/24/2018 07:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 517
Georgia & South Carolina
D
Deepcut Offline
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Georgia & South Carolina
Hopefully the fee will remain $35 per night.

Also to Warren's point, Hope the cancellation policy allows for changes of itinerary (ie weather). Cancellation by night before allows planning while allowing cancellation to be utilized by others.

"The Devil is in the Details"


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (Lagoon 42)
Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176259
11/24/2018 09:08 PM
11/24/2018 09:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 345
Ohio
jagmansr Offline
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Ohio
Guess I’m old school. There’s limited space for mooring balls. Still think first come first serve is best and most fair.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176261
11/24/2018 09:27 PM
11/24/2018 09:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,202
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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GA/NC
It should be first come first served and last in first out. This is going to be a nightmare. I can assure people that when they arrive at sunset for that premium ball at Cooper island someone will be on it.
G

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176263
11/24/2018 09:43 PM
11/24/2018 09:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 443
road town
sleepychef Offline
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road town
they must be replacing the moor secure balls in Anegada with the new balls as they is 20 more going in by Belongers in January that will be closer in and towards the front of the present mooring field, these balls have nothing to do with Moor secure

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176265
11/24/2018 10:01 PM
11/24/2018 10:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 38
F
fromaway3774 Offline
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Posts: 38
I agree that getting kicked off of a ball at Cooper at sunset would be frustrating. (Are any other anchorages as contested as Cooper?) This is why it's so important to have a monitored anchorage. I would expect management to dinghy out and confirm whether or not a boat was rightfully on a mooring well before sunset, ideally as soon as the tie up is attempted. If I had a reservation that I had to enforce myself by kicking another boat off of a ball after they've been limin' all afternoon, then it's not really a reservation.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176282
11/25/2018 09:28 AM
11/25/2018 09:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 104
NJ USA
M
mcevog Offline
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NJ USA
if the price is the same I dont see how it will work. If you are really going to pay for a ball in advance that you expect to be available for your use when you arrive at sunset then you should be prepared to pay a premium for it. If each bay will have a bay manager that will police the mooring for the paying customer and all these balls will be new for the purpose then why wouldn't you charge more... my guess is that this will flare out. First come first served is just fine. Anchoring for the latecomers is also just fine... and its free!

Re: Boatyball [Re: mcevog] #176283
11/25/2018 09:33 AM
11/25/2018 09:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,595
VI,NY,AZ
sail445 Offline
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VI,NY,AZ
Anchoring outside the mooring field at Cooper is deep water and the charter boats don’t give you enough line.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176288
11/25/2018 10:53 AM
11/25/2018 10:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Virginia
B
b6fischer Offline
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Virginia
I have boated in waters where mooring balls can be reserved in advance and it works well. You reserve, get your ball number and tie up. This allows you to enjoy your day and sights along the way to your next spot without worry. There were always "check in" and "check out" times no different than a hotel. On occasion you may need to inform someone that you have a certain ball reserved. This was never a problem as the balls were well marked and the boat knew they were in the wrong and just trying to get away with something (same boaters who tie up to private mooring balls or overnight on National Park balls.)

Having some balls available for reservation and some first-come first served caters to all interests and styles of boating.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176293
11/25/2018 11:48 AM
11/25/2018 11:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 445
Apex, NC
agrimsrud Offline
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Posts: 445
Apex, NC
I doubt there will be "bay monitors". Follow the money [- it doens't add up. If they charge $35 for this service and the first come first served balls are $30 and all the moorings are full there is simply not enough delta to add the cost/time/hassle of a "bay monitor" to collect maybe fifty bucks. So either the cost has to increase significantly or most if not all of the moorings have to use the new system. In any case I'm certain you will be on your own to try to enforce your reservation.


Life's short - sail more!
Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176294
11/25/2018 11:50 AM
11/25/2018 11:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 445
Apex, NC
agrimsrud Offline
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Posts: 445
Apex, NC
One small twist I would make to this reservation system.
If you're not on the ball by an hour before sunset you forfeit your reservation and your fee.


Last edited by agrimsrud; 11/25/2018 11:52 AM.

Life's short - sail more!
Re: Boatyball [Re: sail445] #176326
11/25/2018 08:06 PM
11/25/2018 08:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 104
NJ USA
M
mcevog Offline
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NJ USA
Originally Posted by sail445
Anchoring outside the mooring field at Cooper is deep water and the charter boats don’t give you enough line.


Indeed - Cooper is also largely pretty inappropriate for Anchoring anyway given the bottom grass. I saw a charter monohull drag halfway across the mouth of the bay a year or 2 back, no-one on board, and had to standby in the dinghy with a tow line waiting for the skipper to return from his snorkel trip!

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176332
11/25/2018 08:50 PM
11/25/2018 08:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,561
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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maytrix  Offline
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Posts: 5,561
Massachusetts
Originally Posted by FRANKIE2
The one issue that has not been addressed is what happens if a reserved ball has no reservation? Is there going to be some way to release it for general first come, first served use?

KF Quinn MD


That one seems pretty simple. If a ball has no reservation, you simply reserve it. The only negative aspect here is the need to have the app and be online - internet would be a requirement if you want to use any of these balls.


Matt
Re: Boatyball [Re: agrimsrud] #176334
11/25/2018 09:51 PM
11/25/2018 09:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 430
Charlotte, NC
DEL Offline
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DEL  Offline
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Posts: 430
Charlotte, NC
I think the next step will be "demand pricing" just like Uber. If you want the last ball in the anchorage, you will pay a premium for it. Five years from now, this is the way the BVI will operate. It will be a better experience for your money.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176337
11/25/2018 10:58 PM
11/25/2018 10:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,561
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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Massachusetts
It is certainly an interesting concept, one that has worked in other places. Dockwa is available in other areas and essentially does the same thing.

One thing that I think could work great if it was part of it would be being able to make a reservation and cancel at anytime. The catch would be that if you cancel and no one else takes over your reservation, you still pay for it. But if you cancel and someone else books an otherwise full mooring field, they'd take the mooring you had reserved and you'd then get a refund. Would be great if there was a waitlist in a full mooring field as well - someone cancels, you get a notification..etc. Lots of potential. Only realy drawback I see is that it requires having an internet connection and not everyone will have it.


Matt
Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176338
11/25/2018 10:59 PM
11/25/2018 10:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,914
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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warren460  Offline
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Posts: 1,914
Ontario, Canada
All of the TMM boats have an internet connection included at no extra charge.


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 450
Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176351
11/26/2018 09:29 AM
11/26/2018 09:29 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 289
Staunton, VA
socamon Offline
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socamon  Offline
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Staunton, VA
In my experience in sailing the BVIs, enforcement of mooring balls would be a joke. I’ve seen countless boat overnighting on park balls, dive balls, and private balls. The BVI government officials are too lazy or incompetent to actually enforce their laws. I also think that having a reservation will lead to charterers coming into mooring field after dark and endangering those already on a ball. Charter companies usually require that charterers be moored by 4 or 5 pm.

Re: Boatyball [Re: b6fischer] #176363
11/26/2018 11:06 AM
11/26/2018 11:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 274
W
windward2c Offline
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25 years ago this would seem unnecessary but this is the world we all live in now. Dockwa is an app that I have used extensively in the Northeast for piece of mind to reserve a mooring ball at lets say Nantucket which has limited anchor room and once you arrive its too late to go anywhere else if the harbor is full. I been beaten out by too many Power Cats that I was a mile ahead of heading into say Diamond Cay that blew my whole vibe. Yes the romantic in me wants to imagine such technological intrusions take away from the spirit of cruising but those days have pasted a long time ago and once the kinks are worked out this new system while not without problems will probably be a net gain to our collective cruising experience.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #176429
11/26/2018 07:57 PM
11/26/2018 07:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 21
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WineFusion Offline
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With the decrease in BVI chartering traffic, I would just stick with the old way of picking whatever open ball you see. It also leaves you free to not moor somewhere you intended on staying when you find the mooring place is not what it once used to be or you just want to go somewhere else which we did several times a couple months ago. However I will be back next week and will let you know if anything changes.

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