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Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge #180603
01/13/2019 10:52 PM
01/13/2019 10:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 70
Virginia
dfmsml Offline OP
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Just spent a delightful afternoon at Baie Rouge....Gus started up again last Saturday with beach lounge chair/umbrella/drinks operation....he said he plans to be there daily and may add a grill later....his house was part wood and part cement.and they survived the hurricane in the cement part but the rest is gone....he’s a trooper and was glad to see him back....Dave


dfmsml
SXM Sponsors
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: dfmsml] #180605
01/13/2019 11:05 PM
01/13/2019 11:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,865
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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Auburn, WA
Is he doing this legally or?????

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: dfmsml] #180609
01/14/2019 01:48 AM
01/14/2019 01:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,736
Vancouver, WA
Todd Offline
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Good for Gus!


"I like big seats and I can not lie"
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: Todd] #180610
01/14/2019 04:27 AM
01/14/2019 04:27 AM
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Posts: 1,365
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Is this the same Gus that has units to stay in Grand Case and rents cars?

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: dfmsml] #180615
01/14/2019 09:51 AM
01/14/2019 09:51 AM
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pburke40 Offline
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So hope this works out, but ........

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: dfmsml] #180616
01/14/2019 09:55 AM
01/14/2019 09:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 68,388
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Is this the same person who got a jail sentence recently for operating an unlicensed restaurant?


Carol Hill
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: dfmsml] #180619
01/14/2019 10:14 AM
01/14/2019 10:14 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 255
CT,USA
DICKG Offline
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Great to hear to nice a beach not to have people on it

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: Carol_Hill] #180620
01/14/2019 10:44 AM
01/14/2019 10:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,922
Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline
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Originally Posted by Carol_Hill
Is this the same person who got a jail sentence recently for operating an unlicensed restaurant?

I think that was Chez Raymond.

LINK to previous discussion.


J.D.
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: ruralcarrier] #180623
01/14/2019 11:04 AM
01/14/2019 11:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 68,388
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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OK thanks.


Carol Hill
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: DICKG] #180628
01/14/2019 11:33 AM
01/14/2019 11:33 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,206
Brookfield, CT.
pat Offline
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Originally Posted by DICKG
Great to hear to nice a beach not to have people on it


Many years ago, “ back in the day.....” and long before Gus or any other island entrepreneurs came to this beach and set up their operations, we used to spend lovely days there. We’d pack a small cooler with a few drinks and snacks and toss our towels onto the sand and enjoy the moments. You did have to deal with the coarse and grainy sand and you needed to be aware of the undertow but it was paradise found to so many, and so it is today to those who appreciate the services offered there now.


Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: dfmsml] #180629
01/14/2019 12:03 PM
01/14/2019 12:03 PM
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Posts: 172
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foreversxm Offline
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Mixed feelings about that news. I doubt it is legal since it was not legal for many years and the GOV went in and tore it down. Like many beaches on the Island they become very overrun with people and cars that pour onto private property and crowd the roads. I think a few beaches that are NOT commercialized would be a good thing.

Last edited by foreversxm; 01/14/2019 12:05 PM. Reason: typo
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: Carol_Hill] #180634
01/14/2019 01:49 PM
01/14/2019 01:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 62
Brunswick - Upstate NY
Islandercpl Offline
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Brunswick - Upstate NY
Carol......No, Gus did not receive a jail sentence. We're very good friends with Gus.....well over 20 years. He upon going down to his bar to check for damage/or if it still was there after the hurricane was told that he could not rebuild. He has tried to do the correct thing, permit wise, but still is being told he or anybody else can not rebuild. He is also being told he will not get a permit. I spoke with him the other day, he told me that he was back on the beach renting chairs and selling drinks, but was told not to come back because the beach is a private beach and no one can rent chairs or sell drinks. He was approached by roughly 20 Grandmares [sp] and told to pack up and leave. He was also told the Baie Rouge owners association doesn't want anyone on their beach. Gus is determined to make a living selling to his long time customers......he says "I have a license to sell, they have granted me, so I want to make a living". He pointed out to me a few times......since I was born, the beaches of St. Martin have always been public domain...nobody owns the beaches. I don't know what the outcome of this is going to be.......although after our conversation, I know Gus is determined to do what he has always done. Times have definitely changed......not for the better.

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: Islandercpl] #180636
01/14/2019 01:58 PM
01/14/2019 01:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,865
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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So what your saying is that even though he has been told he can't legally operate on that beach he is doing it anyway. Not good.

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: Islandercpl] #180637
01/14/2019 02:00 PM
01/14/2019 02:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 68,388
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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It appears it was the owner of Chez Raymond who received a suspended jail sentence. However, it appears to be that this can hardly be a long term operation, since Gus acknowledges he doesn't have a permit and won't get one..


Carol Hill
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: SXMScubaman] #180639
01/14/2019 02:16 PM
01/14/2019 02:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,252
Long Island, New York
sxmmartini Offline
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I have a new attitude toward the illegal beach bars and chair rentals on the public beaches. Leave them alone! The beaches are public and the owners of beach villas do not own the beach. The activity of a beach vendor adds security to tourists andis all good !


"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it." Mae West
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: sxmmartini] #180641
01/14/2019 02:33 PM
01/14/2019 02:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,865
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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Correct. The beaches are for public use but not for a business operation. If he is allowed to get away with it how many others will do the same thing on that beach or others?

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: SXMScubaman] #180643
01/14/2019 02:39 PM
01/14/2019 02:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,252
Long Island, New York
sxmmartini Offline
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I disagree with you. Take Colin and Cedric on Club Orient. They both are bringing a service to tourists and making money.

Last edited by sxmmartini; 01/14/2019 02:41 PM. Reason: Grammar
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: sxmmartini] #180644
01/14/2019 02:42 PM
01/14/2019 02:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,865
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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Auburn, WA
Doesn't make it right if not legal.

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: dfmsml] #180645
01/14/2019 02:45 PM
01/14/2019 02:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,252
Long Island, New York
sxmmartini Offline
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Long Island, New York
It is not the place for us to judge what is right or wrong in another Country. No one is getting hurt here!


"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it." Mae West
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: sxmmartini] #180647
01/14/2019 02:49 PM
01/14/2019 02:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,865
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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I'm not judging what is right or wrong. The French Government has through their laws.

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: Islandercpl] #180649
01/14/2019 03:02 PM
01/14/2019 03:02 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,111
Virginia
Snorkeller Offline
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The legal entity is the Association Syndicale des Propriétaires des Terres Basses; the formal English translation is the Landowners Association Terres Basses, Inc. The Association claims to own or at least have extraordinary legal rights to the lowland beaches because of the fact that Erik Lawaetz, with the assistance of the then Mayor, in 1959, obtained a deed from some governmental authority in Paris to the domain land (i.e., the beaches) of the lowlands. (Erik Lawaetz is a huge name in the history of the island's tourism - he died in 2010 at the age of 96.) The Association always claimed that no one had the right to operate any commercial operation of any kind on the lowland beaches, unless authorized by the Association - Raymond and Gus were never so authorized. Over the years since they set up their operations, the Association has made efforts to get them off Baie Rouge, but never was able to get it done until post-Irma. The Association is legally obligated and committed to leave open at least one access path to the three lowland beaches and to permit people to enjoy the beaches. But, the Association always has taken the position, and it seems that the Collectivitie now definitely agrees as a legal matter, that no one can have a commercial operation on the beaches. I suppose the Association could make a deal and permit a commercial operation, but I do not think that ever will happen.

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: Snorkeller] #180654
01/14/2019 03:20 PM
01/14/2019 03:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,865
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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Thanks for the in depth clarification.

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: SXMScubaman] #180656
01/14/2019 03:23 PM
01/14/2019 03:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 62
Brunswick - Upstate NY
Islandercpl Offline
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Brunswick - Upstate NY
He does have a license/permit to sell, but not a permit to rebuild his beach bar. I asked him if his license was taken away after the hurricane, but he said no. Being that he is of the "older generation" of islanders he is having difficulty with the new ideas/rules/regulations. Over the years[since mid 80's] of having his establishment on the beach he didn't encounter much problems with the government except for them making sure that locals were working for him. Until recently has there been any problem with the building itself. Some sort of officials would come down and say this needs to be done, or that needs to be done. He would comply and they would be satisfied for a bit then come back with demands again.

I'm not going to say who is wrong or who is right......but my heart feels for Gus [he's our SXM family] and every other person on the island that has had their livelihood, home, employment, family taken away by mother nature and governments new rules. I understand the permit thing......safety, hygiene, order, etc. But, put yourself in this mans shoes......put yourself in the situation of this life is the only life you know. His business is gone, his home almost completely destroyed, his vehicles - one gone, one totaled. This past March we visited Gus in what was left of his house.....just a small one room concrete structure with whatever of his possessions survived.....it was so sad, I had to do all I could not to cry in front of him. So if the government won't give people like Gus a new building permit, but will let him have a license to sell, what is the answer? He unlike Chez Raymond did not just go back to the beach and rebuild without a permit....hence the jail sentence. He has met with, as he says " the big government people" a few times, but no permit is given. I really don't see them budging.

I don't know about the rest of you on this board, but to us why not grant these people that have been selling/renting most of their lives on all the beaches the proper permits. The small locally owned beach bars and other establishments is what drew us to keep coming back to the island since 1987. Not trying to start a right/wrong heated debate, but what is wrong with having a few palm covered beach bars on a beautiful beach for all to enjoy.

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: Islandercpl] #180658
01/14/2019 03:29 PM
01/14/2019 03:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,865
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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Looks like it is also a problem with the Association Syndicale des Propriétaires des Terres Basses; the formal English translation is the Landowners Association Terres Basses, Inc. that is also involved in this as explained in a pior post along with French laws.

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: SXMScubaman] #180659
01/14/2019 03:35 PM
01/14/2019 03:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,252
Long Island, New York
sxmmartini Offline
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I remember setting an easy up on Baie Rouge years ago and an owner from a villa came down the beach yelling and screaming. He was not even in view of our tent on the beach. He was ranting and practically tore our shade tent before my hubby told him to back off. We left the beach and never returned.


"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it." Mae West
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: Snorkeller] #180664
01/14/2019 03:57 PM
01/14/2019 03:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 62
Brunswick - Upstate NY
Islandercpl Offline
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Brunswick - Upstate NY
Snorkeller, thanks for clarifying. As you I don't see the association changing their minds or their regulations. With the legal rights set forth in back in 1959, you would have thought that something would have been done many many years ago.......doesn't appear they "tried" that hard. Guess it took the muscle of a rotten hurricane to do the job. I still hope that kindness will prevail and permits will be granted.....one can only hope!

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: Islandercpl] #180665
01/14/2019 04:06 PM
01/14/2019 04:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,252
Long Island, New York
sxmmartini Offline
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It has never been the local beach vendors that has given us reason to not return but the homeowners of beach properties that act mentally out of their minds that keep me off the public beaches. I had an owner of Club Orient ( I knickname him pony tail) who threw an umbrella at my friend and I ???? It is crazy!


"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it." Mae West
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: Islandercpl] #180668
01/14/2019 04:33 PM
01/14/2019 04:33 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,111
Virginia
Snorkeller Offline
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Virginia
You should encourage Gus to write a book about his life and experiences on the island. The changes that have occurred on the island just during his life time are remarkable. It would be fascinating to read about how he got started at Baie Rouge, how he hung on as many years as he did, his fights with the Association, how the heck he and Raymond co-existed as they did - shoot, I'll buy a copy when it comes out.

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: Snorkeller] #180676
01/14/2019 05:29 PM
01/14/2019 05:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 62
Brunswick - Upstate NY
Islandercpl Offline
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Brunswick - Upstate NY
Snorkeller......it would be a great story! Over the years we have sat with him and listened to many of his stories.....some happy some sad. One thing I will say about Gus.....he is a character...:-) You mentioned changes......I can only imagine! The island has changed so much since we've been going.....just think how it has for him. I'll see what I can do about the book....LOL

sxmmartini.....definitely know what you mean. We've witness some homeowners flipping their tops, just being rude for no legitimate reason on public beaches. Unfortunately ruining their and everyone else's day.

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: dfmsml] #180681
01/14/2019 06:01 PM
01/14/2019 06:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 132
pburke40 Offline
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Gus is a wonderful person. I hope that something can be worked out for him. I miss the old St Martin of the 1980’s.

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: pburke40] #180694
01/14/2019 07:32 PM
01/14/2019 07:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,736
Vancouver, WA
Todd Offline
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I for one would support Gus on all of this and I hope he wins in the end, they either are going to take away his ability to operate in a location they have allowed for a couple decades or get rid of a ruling that is not consistent with either side of the island. I hope he gets island support, let me know where to donate to and I will!

No Private Beaches - Gus should stay !


"I like big seats and I can not lie"
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: Todd] #180698
01/14/2019 07:45 PM
01/14/2019 07:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,865
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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I don't think the issue is beach access. The issue is running a concession or business on the beach that is forbidden to do so by a long standing ruling. I feel bad for him too but he has known this before.

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: dfmsml] #180715
01/14/2019 10:38 PM
01/14/2019 10:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 70
Virginia
dfmsml Offline OP
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dfmsml  Offline OP
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Virginia
Since I started this post and have read the comments so far, I offer these two observations....one ....owners of the Baie Rouge association properties probably would like to see “their beach” private and none of us would enjoy it....and two....thankfully, so far both the French and Dutch governments have held fast on assuring that “ all beaches are public” and must have public access. If that ever changes we can all, as the Eagles Don Henley song “The Last Resort” states ...call it paradise...kiss it goodbye....Dave


dfmsml
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: dfmsml] #180750
01/15/2019 10:18 AM
01/15/2019 10:18 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 68,388
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Especially on the Dutch side, it almost seems like the idea of a public beach is honored more in the breach than observance thereof, but having a commercial establishment on a beach is a different question. Which is not to say that I agree with the landowners, but it appears to be a different question, especially with regard to Baie Rouge.

Last edited by Carol_Hill; 01/15/2019 10:25 AM.

Carol Hill
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: SXMScubaman] #180826
01/15/2019 06:39 PM
01/15/2019 06:39 PM
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Doc Bill Offline
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Can't wait to see the members of the "Association" cleaning up the garbage on the beach when people BYO and don't clean up. Baie Rouge is one of the nicest on SXM. What harm did it do to anyone having Gus and Raymond there. The beach with great chicken and ribs was a plus for the Island, especially the fact that the chairs were spread out unlike Mullet and Sunset. Live and let live.

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: dfmsml] #180864
01/16/2019 11:46 AM
01/16/2019 11:46 AM
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Posts: 2,093
Connecticut
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It is a shame that their businesses can't be grandfathered since they have
been there for so many years!

Having them there does make it safer for people to enjoy the beach.

Sad, that there is so much greed......

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: dfmsml] #181660
01/23/2019 12:57 PM
01/23/2019 12:57 PM
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Posts: 339
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Joecool Offline
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My wife and I have been going to Baie Rouge for years. It is one of the nicest and quietest beaches on the island. In regard to Gus. He was always pleasant and all those who worked for him were very nice and good to all who visited. As for whether he is operating legal or not is a non-starter as it seems to be an issue for some on this thread.
He never bothered anyone and if he wasn't operating legally, there was no harm to persons or property owners. He was giving visitors what they wanted. He saw an opportunity and ran with it. If anything, he has been an asset to all who visit the beach. He keeps an eye on those who park in the lot and prevents break-ins.
The problem with the villa owners is they are worried about the element invading what they consider "their" beach. If you look at the average beach goer to Rouge they are just there to enjoy the beach. What they should worry about is the beach pervs who go to look at top-free females. Let's call it for what it is. The owners don't like this and would love nothing more than to privatize the beach and keep the tourists and locals out. Just because they may have the money, they want to buy the political power. Should and if the government does interfere with Gus' operation and attempt to impose the will of some owners, then they are doing harm to themselves, the livelihood of the citizens and the economic power of the tourism industry. The government should go after the real criminals starting within the few that may be within their own ranks.

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: Joecool] #181723
01/23/2019 08:28 PM
01/23/2019 08:28 PM
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Posts: 225
CANADA
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LINNY Offline
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CANADA
Well said!!!!!!! He was/is helping the island by employing people, keeping the beach clean and protecting people’s cars. Give the man a break!!!!!!!! It is one of our favourite beaches but we would not feel safe if he wasn’t there.

Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: dfmsml] #181942
01/26/2019 04:30 PM
01/26/2019 04:30 PM
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Posts: 141
New Jersey
filet2u Offline
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New Jersey
Love that beach


People ask me why St Martin I say the best food the best beaches. Two different experiences on the same island
Re: Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge [Re: dfmsml] #182031
01/27/2019 01:49 PM
01/27/2019 01:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 255
CT,USA
DICKG Offline
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CT,USA
We have been going to SXM since 1985 and enjoyed this beach every trip , while the sand is hard to walk in just love this place . To be able to have chairs available is a real plus we have never seen any trash on the beach thanks to the people who rent the chairs . The association should really look at this if they would just get there head out of the sand and see how much better this could be for all .

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