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Re: Boatyball
[Re: Alec Atteberry]
#188768
03/26/2019 02:09 PM
03/26/2019 02:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
sail445
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
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If you arrive and find a squatter with nobody aboard. What about digging some lines out, chucking out some fenders and rafting alongside, then tie to the ball.
When they come back, they can then FOQ. You may find they return a little quicker...
I recognise that the balls are not supposed to have more than a single 60ft yacht on. But assuming it's not blowing old boots...and it's for a short period of time...and you remain aboard until the offender returns...plus what is the actual load limit on the balls? An ocean going yacht like a Hallberg Rassy 55 weighs roughly twice what a Jeanneau 54 does...so if it can safely take one of the former, it can certainly take two of the latter.
*this post doesn't change my 100% negative view on BB btw! Just curious why you’re so admantly against BoatyBall? Have you ever tried the service? And I believe the tonnage and rafting limits are set by the mooring company not BoatyBall. Most of the moorings there were designed to handle 60ft monohulls but in the current cruising scene where Cats around that size are the predominant charter boat in the BVI the swing is a little less generous than it used to be. Sure you could probably get away with rafting two monohulls, but trying that with catamarans is a terrible idea. At the least you’re breaking the rules, and at the worst you’re going to end up with two beached boats and no insurnace from the mooring company. Would BoatyBall be responsible if a non charterer reserved a ball and it was taken by a chartered boat and the non chartered boat who arrived after dark had to anchor and his anchor dragged and went aground?
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: sail445]
#188771
03/26/2019 02:55 PM
03/26/2019 02:55 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 425 South Carolina
Riverfrontbrewer
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 425
South Carolina
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If you arrive and find a squatter with nobody aboard. What about digging some lines out, chucking out some fenders and rafting alongside, then tie to the ball.
When they come back, they can then FOQ. You may find they return a little quicker...
I recognise that the balls are not supposed to have more than a single 60ft yacht on. But assuming it's not blowing old boots...and it's for a short period of time...and you remain aboard until the offender returns...plus what is the actual load limit on the balls? An ocean going yacht like a Hallberg Rassy 55 weighs roughly twice what a Jeanneau 54 does...so if it can safely take one of the former, it can certainly take two of the latter.
*this post doesn't change my 100% negative view on BB btw! Just curious why you’re so admantly against BoatyBall? Have you ever tried the service? And I believe the tonnage and rafting limits are set by the mooring company not BoatyBall. Most of the moorings there were designed to handle 60ft monohulls but in the current cruising scene where Cats around that size are the predominant charter boat in the BVI the swing is a little less generous than it used to be. Sure you could probably get away with rafting two monohulls, but trying that with catamarans is a terrible idea. At the least you’re breaking the rules, and at the worst you’re going to end up with two beached boats and no insurnace from the mooring company. Would BoatyBall be responsible if a non charterer reserved a ball and it was taken by a chartered boat and the non chartered boat who arrived after dark had to anchor and his anchor dragged and went aground? The terms of use on the boatyball website would lead me to say no, as they address this exact situation in at least one area, and other areas have more blanket statements that I am sure their legal team crafted in case there was an issue as you describe. Of course this doesn't mean someone wouldn't try to bring such a suit. *I am not an attorney, and my legal advise is worth exactly the amount that was paid for it!*
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#188773
03/26/2019 03:22 PM
03/26/2019 03:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
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Maybe the solution is to allow booking a ball a week in advance? We all know Cooper is a hot spot with limited balls and limited nearby options. Imagine being able to book a night at cooper at the start of your trip. First night you want isn't available, you can simply adjust your plans and pick a night that is. The only problem with this would be how would you handle someone cancelling or not showing up. I imagine once you get within a certain timeframe, there's no refund for cancelling. But you also can't book a ball elsewhere unless you cancel maybe?
Anyway.. seems like it could help people get to destinations they want to get to without all the fuss at 7am? I'm not sure the system truly works well though unless all balls are by reservation.
Matt
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#188818
03/27/2019 03:27 AM
03/27/2019 03:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 16 Minnesota
MarkMN
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 16
Minnesota
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I don't chime in very often on the forum, but I read most everything posted - and you all have made our family trips so much more enjoyable and easier. This is one of those times I need to say something...
If this isn't the infancy stage of airline seat selection walking on water, I don't know what it is. I was heavily involved with that in the past, and this is exactly what we did at the start.
Begin with a small number of seats (mooring balls) and see what you could get for them. Look at that, they sold out quickly. You add more...and fast. Make some seats better than others and sell them for more. Eventually, make it a standard that if you don't pay extra for your seat ahead of time, you'll have to anchor in the back near the lav with no space for your legs.
But hey, if you are a Vibranium Member and opt-in for the special offer sent through email to your frequent mooring account, you and your flotilla can grab your balls 36 hours early. More revenue from external promotions.
Don't forget the add-ons such as wi-fi, garbage collection, liquor delivery, changing location to move where you really want, all-inclusive premium dinner reservations, air tank refills, SUP delivery, taxi to Hog Heaven, etc. You name it, it can happen and will. Because the number of seats (or balls) is finite, the services must increase to make it viable.
The timing of reservations will become irrelevant. There are third-party ways around trying to login at a specific time. There was the resourceful fellow that created a system to automate the seat selection program against Southwest Airlines exactly 24 hours prior to flight departure, and would then charge his customers a premium to receive a top line boarding priority (seats on Southwest). I wonder if any coders have tried that against Boatyball? Eventually, the timing is all revenue based.
I can sincerely appreciate the idea behind it, but I don't like what I see as unavoidable disruptions in the future. We are still BVI rookies, but my family has been fortunate enough to find our paradise and we would like to keep it that way as long as our extended family will allow. That, and my wife just can't sleep if we have to anchor.
Last edited by MarkMN; 03/27/2019 03:28 AM.
Mark
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: NewfD90]
#188868
03/27/2019 11:29 AM
03/27/2019 11:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
Christo
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
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Speaking of North Sound moorings/anchorages. Looking at anchoring in Robins Bay or off Vixen Pt. However, doesn't Vixen Pt have moorings? Or are they in bad shape?
Along those lines, whats wrong with the Saba/BEYC moorings? Are the pennants removed, or just in a bad/unmaintained state? We used the BEYC moorings last year. They had the pennants removed and the ring on the top taped up...neither of which was too hard to get around by encouraging Mrs Christo into the dinghy with a knife between her teeth and the dinghy tied to the bow cleat prior to approaching the ball. We subsequently helped out one of the guys we knew who was working on the rubble at BEYC by giving him a lift (Bacchus, i'm sure others on here know him well!)...he had no issues with us using the ball and didn't seem to understand why they were taped up. ...obviously we were aware that it was at our own risk. After carrying out our own inspection we were happy to use it. A year later...I don't know. We will probably anchor in Prickly Bay.
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: warren460]
#188901
03/27/2019 07:44 PM
03/27/2019 07:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,861 Bradenton, FL
Winterstale
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,861
Bradenton, FL
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The race is on to convert many more balls before beyc and Saba are back. Convert to bb at white bay and great harbour too. It’s only a matter of time and we will all pay more for it. I agree with MarkMN. Me too...
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: Christo]
#188945
03/28/2019 01:18 PM
03/28/2019 01:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 24 Colorado
NewfD90
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 24
Colorado
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Speaking of North Sound moorings/anchorages. Looking at anchoring in Robins Bay or off Vixen Pt. However, doesn't Vixen Pt have moorings? Or are they in bad shape?
Along those lines, whats wrong with the Saba/BEYC moorings? Are the pennants removed, or just in a bad/unmaintained state? We used the BEYC moorings last year. They had the pennants removed and the ring on the top taped up...neither of which was too hard to get around by encouraging Mrs Christo into the dinghy with a knife between her teeth and the dinghy tied to the bow cleat prior to approaching the ball. We subsequently helped out one of the guys we knew who was working on the rubble at BEYC by giving him a lift (Bacchus, i'm sure others on here know him well!)...he had no issues with us using the ball and didn't seem to understand why they were taped up. ...obviously we were aware that it was at our own risk. After carrying out our own inspection we were happy to use it. A year later...I don't know. We will probably anchor in Prickly Bay. That's what I figured - thanks for the confirmation!
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: leeguice]
#188957
03/28/2019 04:30 PM
03/28/2019 04:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
Christo
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
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Anyone know the status of the 12-15 balls in front of The Fat Virgin in Biras Creek? We understood that they had not been maintained for quite a while even pre-Irma (following the closure of Biras I think) and were risky to use even back in 2017...when we were last there in 2018 I recall one of them had an upside-down half sunken powerboat tied to it. Unless anything has changed...our advice would be to stay clear of them!
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#189176
03/30/2019 05:15 PM
03/30/2019 05:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 33 El Dorado Hills, CA
Yoff
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 33
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Just back from the islands and thought I'd weigh in the BoatyBall thing (trip report at a later date). First, I'm not a fan of the idea. In my view the BoatyBalls have created an artificial demand for Cooper (you always want what you can't have?). I like Cooper fine, and it's always been a nice place for a sundowner and a quiet night aboard, but I don't count it a "must" stop or even necessarily in my top 50% - your mileage may vary. All the angst and hassle over getting a ball there seems misplaced to me.
Anyway, I got online one morning, had the BB site loaded and BINGO there were moorings available at Cooper! I clicked on one I thought would be in less demand (outside row) and got to the "Reserve" page. Clicked the "Reserve" button and... ugh, "This mooring had already been reserved"! He with the fastest internet wins, and that wasn't me!
Long story short, we had a beautiful sail that day, and a perfectly fine (better?) evening on the hook at Marina Cay. I would not have traded it for a mooring reservation at Cooper in a million years!
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: bailau]
#189220
03/31/2019 12:19 PM
03/31/2019 12:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 251 Okla
ScurvyD
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 251
Okla
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Add or convert existing balls??
I'd like to be a jelly fish, cause jelly fish don't pay rent.
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#189237
03/31/2019 02:16 PM
03/31/2019 02:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
Christo
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
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Never had an issue with paying the chap in the tender!
...but I'll take a FCFS Boatyball over the other kind of Boatyball any day...
But is this existing FCFS balls being converted to Boatyball FCFS (pointless but not a bother, unless the price goes up)...or are they actually adding some new ones does anyone know?
Just the kind of 'progress' the BVI needs. Hopefully Soggy Dollar Bar will start accepting Bitcoin soon...though they will have to change their name...'Short-circuited iPhone Bar' has a good ring to it.
Last edited by Christo; 03/31/2019 02:35 PM.
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#189238
03/31/2019 02:17 PM
03/31/2019 02:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,144 Ontario, Canada
warren460
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,144
Ontario, Canada
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And how much will boaty ball fcfs cost?
The only advantage here seems to be not needing to use cash.
Who thinks this is useful?
Last edited by warren460; 03/31/2019 02:19 PM.
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#189285
03/31/2019 09:38 PM
03/31/2019 09:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,144 Ontario, Canada
warren460
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,144
Ontario, Canada
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Who owns boaty ball? Are there kickbacks? Follow the money. Something smells.
I hope that there are no long team contracts, else prices are going to jump a lot once they control the market.
Last edited by warren460; 03/31/2019 09:41 PM.
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#189293
03/31/2019 11:03 PM
03/31/2019 11:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,144 Ontario, Canada
warren460
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,144
Ontario, Canada
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Many places already advertise that their balls are maintained by moor secure..
I was not aware that boatyball is responsible if your mooring fails. I think that the standard moor secure mooring receipt says use at own risk. Had anyone read the terms recently?
If boaty ball installs more balls instead of higher priced converted balls, and if the balls are not too high for a cat, then I would consider using the fcfs version of boaty ball.
Last edited by warren460; 03/31/2019 11:13 PM.
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#189311
04/01/2019 07:40 AM
04/01/2019 07:40 AM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,785 GA/NC
GeorgeC1
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,785
GA/NC
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Most of the balls in use at the normal anchorages are installed and maintained by moor secure. Those that are not generally are marked private. There were some exceptions like BEYC who did their own maintenance. I have had two balls fail on me at night. One failed at the seabed and the other under the ball. Both were corrosion induced. I would not touch any of the BEYC balls now as corrision at the shackles on the seabed is a issue. The current style ball chosen by boatyball is to tall for most cats and will damage the underside of the cat as well as keeping you up all night if you don’t have a steady breeze to keep the boat downwind of the ball. You can prevent this by bringing the ball up short and trapping it near the front crossbar so it can’t get under the bridge deck. If you don’t control the ball you could be hit with a rather large repair bill by the charter company. That big steel ring on top of the ball will do a job on the bridge deck. G
Last edited by GeorgeC1; 04/01/2019 08:12 AM.
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: warren460]
#189313
04/01/2019 08:01 AM
04/01/2019 08:01 AM
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 62
mfringsley
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 62
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And how much will boaty ball fcfs cost?
The only advantage here seems to be not needing to use cash.
Who thinks this is useful? I don't think it's useful at all really. Everyone knows the program with FCFS and it's worked forever....if you want a guaranteed mooring then get up earlier and get there. I've never planned on a stop and couldn't get a mooring. Also, let's face it.....I don't think having $300 cash for moorings is a real issue with people that are spending $15k on a vacation. It's just a very easy thing that gets planned for.
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: sail445]
#189315
04/01/2019 08:03 AM
04/01/2019 08:03 AM
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 62
mfringsley
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 62
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Another speed bump... A sailing vacation is supposed to be where you drop and forget the 9 to 5 routine. It seem s the only ones who are going to enjoy Boaty Ball are the owners and the Blowhard overweight charterers with a paid Captain and crew. Cheers to that!
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: bailau]
#189316
04/01/2019 08:07 AM
04/01/2019 08:07 AM
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 62
mfringsley
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 62
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I believe there is a delay in graying the icon out which is why I recommended to BB that you pick the mooring field in general and then are assigned a ball. I do respect the dissenting view that some may want to choose a mooring but I would expect the majority of boaters would appreciate any ball with less hassle.
This is a much more logical approach than reserving a specific ball due to the problems mentioned here.
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: BoatyBall]
#189360
04/01/2019 11:44 AM
04/01/2019 11:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
Christo
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
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Based off of the early feedback and the overwhelming response we believe we have created a service that boaters want. Not based on the feedback on this forum!
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: Christo]
#189394
04/01/2019 03:35 PM
04/01/2019 03:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 55
fromaway3774
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 55
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Based off of the early feedback and the overwhelming response we believe we have created a service that boaters want. Not based on the feedback on this forum! Maybe not based on the feedback on this forum but with over 2K reservations over the last three months, it's safe to say that someone likes the service. I'm game to keep stirring this pot. Why is it ok to have to get up early on vacation to physically sail to and secure a FCFS ball at Cooper or Anegada but not ok to get up early to log into an app to secure a reservation? And then make a leisurely departure and take more time on the water en route?
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#189399
04/01/2019 04:19 PM
04/01/2019 04:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
Christo
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
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Because in the world of 100% FCFS everyone has the ability to get to a mooring field in time to get a ball...its a choice and its a level playing field. Not just those with a good internet connection at 7am and fast fingers. Some people may like to still be asleep at that time, personally we are usually gone by then, so would have to find a signal whilst underway.
I'm not at all suprised about the 2k reservations and it doesn't prove the popularity of the idea at all...BB have taken FCFS balls away, so of course they're going to get used! There are more boats than balls...people won't just leave them vacant because they think BB is a s### idea! how many of the 2k reservations would have preferred or been just as happy with a FCFS? No way to know.
The more that are converted, the more people are forced to move over to BB, whether they want to or not. And the EARLIER everyone else has to get to the mooring field to pick up one of the remaining FCFS balls.
Its the very definition of a nil sum game. Some people win by having the best internet connection at 7am...the rest have to get to the mooring field even earlier than they otherwise would have...to get a FCFS ball.
None of it solves the problem...which is undersupply! If BB added some more balls then they would be helping the problem. As it is...the "two friends" who started it have just thrown a spanner in the works of a machine that was working just fine without their input.
It wasn't broken...it didn't need 'fixing'!
(and that's without listing all the other negatives of BB that have been mentioned on this forum...squatter issues/balls that damage cats/staying two nights etc etc etc)
Last edited by Christo; 04/01/2019 04:23 PM.
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: Christo]
#189414
04/01/2019 05:36 PM
04/01/2019 05:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 705 Panama City Beach, Florida
xrayman67
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 705
Panama City Beach, Florida
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Because in the world of 100% FCFS everyone has the ability to get to a mooring field in time to get a ball...its a choice and its a level playing field. Not just those with a good internet connection at 7am and fast fingers. Some people may like to still be asleep at that time, personally we are usually gone by then, so would have to find a signal whilst underway.
I'm not at all suprised about the 2k reservations and it doesn't prove the popularity of the idea at all...BB have taken FCFS balls away, so of course they're going to get used! There are more boats than balls...people won't just leave them vacant because they think BB is a s### idea! how many of the 2k reservations would have preferred or been just as happy with a FCFS? No way to know.
The more that are converted, the more people are forced to move over to BB, whether they want to or not. And the EARLIER everyone else has to get to the mooring field to pick up one of the remaining FCFS balls.
Its the very definition of a nil sum game. Some people win by having the best internet connection at 7am...the rest have to get to the mooring field even earlier than they otherwise would have...to get a FCFS ball.
None of it solves the problem...which is undersupply! If BB added some more balls then they would be helping the problem. As it is...the "two friends" who started it have just thrown a spanner in the works of a machine that was working just fine without their input.
It wasn't broken...it didn't need 'fixing'!
(and that's without listing all the other negatives of BB that have been mentioned on this forum...squatter issues/balls that damage cats/staying two nights etc etc etc)
Christo, I agree!!!
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: Winterstale]
#189418
04/01/2019 05:45 PM
04/01/2019 05:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 64 Waco, Texas
Alec Atteberry
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 64
Waco, Texas
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Also interested in the “insured” statement....what does that mean??? Part of the benefit of Moor Seacure moorings is that they have some sort of liability insurnace associated with them. I don’t know how much they are insured for, but from what I understand they will reimburse a Boater x amount for damages if their boat becomes unattached from one of their moorings due to a fault on their part (ie. Penant damage, broken shackle, corrosion, etc.)
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