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Lagoon 42 VS 450 #199555
07/08/2019 04:02 PM
07/08/2019 04:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 13
Kansas
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flyingcloud Offline OP
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Hello everyone! Long time lurker, finally made an account so I can hopefully contribute to this great community of sailors. We are heading down for our 4th trip in November and are chartering a newer Lagoon 42. I was wondering what your opinions are of this boat? I was on a 450 last year and am wondering if the size difference will be substantial? There will be only 5 of us this year, so space isn't too much of a concern compared to sail area and handling. Thoughts?

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Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199568
07/08/2019 06:31 PM
07/08/2019 06:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 436
Charlotte, NC
DEL Offline
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DEL  Offline
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Have done 450s in the past and did two weeks on a 42 this year. The biggest differences for me were the fly bridge (assuming 450F model) and the forward cockpit on the 450. The 42 had a self-tacking jib which took getting used to. Can't really comment on sail area and handling other than the previous sentence.

Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199570
07/08/2019 07:03 PM
07/08/2019 07:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 203
Okla
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Okla
We chartered a 2019 Lagoon 42 this year and loved it. I'm probably not as seasoned a sailor as most here, but I thought it handled and sailed great. The self tacking jib was a breeze, and you can really fine tune it with the car positions along the track. We probably averaged 6 to 9 knots. Didn't have to motor much, and ran the gen at night for air. Used about 44 gallons of fuel. You might get spoiled with only 5, as we were just 2 couples, and I'm not sure I could go back to 4 couples on a boat. A fly bridge would be nice to have, but I don't think you'll miss it too bad. We chartered with TMM, and there are a few owners here on the forum who have 42's and 450's there. They could give you a good report. Enjoy


I'd like to be a jelly fish, cause jelly fish don't pay rent.
Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199584
07/09/2019 04:28 AM
07/09/2019 04:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 121
NJ USA
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mcevog Offline
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Depends on your sailing preferences! We went on a week with a 450 and a 42 in a group. The 450 tops the 42 for speed on every point of sail. The rig configuration on the 42 (stepped back mast with a smaller main and the self tacking jib which limits the size of the headsail) makes, imho, for a reduced performance from the 450 rig. In a 4 cabin version I dont think you will feel much difference in inside space, but I agree that the flybridge on the 450 is a nice gathering spot underway that the 42 doesnt have.

Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199586
07/09/2019 05:27 AM
07/09/2019 05:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,056
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Online content
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warren460  Online Content
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The 450 is a much larger boat. This generally allows for more space inside and out. The 450 is faster under sail.


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 450, (part of the TMM fleet until April, Charter Caribe (all inclusive-crewed) in St Thomas thereafter https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
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Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199590
07/09/2019 08:07 AM
07/09/2019 08:07 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 618
Ft. Worth, TX
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Lcrich Offline
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Haven’t looked at a 42 but can’t imagine not having that wonderful flybridge. We live up there.
Another vote vote a L450 - 3 cabin. We are going in Oct for 3 weeks and only have guests coming for one week. The L450 is easy for 2 people or 8. We love the owners suite.

Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199593
07/09/2019 08:52 AM
07/09/2019 08:52 AM
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windward2c Offline
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I have chartered the 440 and/or the 450 probably 6 or 7 times in the Carib and I currently own a 42 in the New York area. For a couple who uses the boat as their primary whether as live abroad, day sails or coastal cruising, I think the 42 is one of the best fits size, handling, performance (we use the Code 0 almost all the time) that one can make; however, for charter for 4 or more my favorite boat by far (and I have chartered FPs, Lepoards, Catana etc) the Lagoon 450 is the best. Hands down the flybridge is the determining factor every time. If money isnt the issue, book the 450 and dont even think about it.

Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199615
07/09/2019 03:40 PM
07/09/2019 03:40 PM
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Kansas
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flyingcloud Offline OP
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Thanks for the replies. Yes, the fly bridge was great and we spent a lot of time up there while sailing last year. We like to sail a lot and not just get to the next spot as quickly as possible so now I'm definitely conflicted! I can take or leave the self tacking jib, I have great crew so that isn't too important. We currently have a 4 cabin 42 booked with TMM (had a couple drop out), but there is a 3 cabin 450 that we could trade to, so I will have to discuss this with the crew. The other consideration is the 450 is a few years older, but TMM takes pretty good care of their boats so that probably isn't too much of a concern.

Last edited by flyingcloud; 07/09/2019 03:42 PM.
Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199616
07/09/2019 03:56 PM
07/09/2019 03:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 618
Ft. Worth, TX
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Lcrich Offline
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flyingcloud,
Check out Cool Change with TMM. We have sailed her twice and will again for 3 weeks in Oct. The owner, Kevin is very hands on and always updates the boat. He also is very easy to contact if you have any questions. Although you are right, TMM takes great care of all the boats in their charter. PM me if you have any questions about Cool Change.

Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: Lcrich] #199620
07/09/2019 04:12 PM
07/09/2019 04:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 13
Kansas
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flyingcloud Offline OP
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Lcrich,
That one is unfortunately booked during our dates. Kindred Soul would be our only option for a 3 cabin 450.

Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199621
07/09/2019 04:49 PM
07/09/2019 04:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 618
Ft. Worth, TX
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Lcrich Offline
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Oh darn! Just be sure that Kindred does not have those AWFUL new blue cushions on the boat. Verify that your boat has factory cushions.

Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199625
07/09/2019 06:11 PM
07/09/2019 06:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,056
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Online content
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The factory cushions while comfortable are not practical. If they get wet, they take forever to dry and they soak up the water. Not pleasant to sit on while wet.

Scuba doo has partial dodger windows to keep the fly relatively dry.


Last edited by warren460; 07/09/2019 06:12 PM.

Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 450, (part of the TMM fleet until April, Charter Caribe (all inclusive-crewed) in St Thomas thereafter https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
A TTOL sponsor
Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: warren460] #199631
07/09/2019 07:06 PM
07/09/2019 07:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 58
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stlmco Offline
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Not sure what your dates are, but Serengeti is our 2019 450F 3 cabin at TMM which no doubt you would love. Factory cushions, propane barbecue, Yeti cooler, all electric winches (including davits) and everything else that makes the 450F such a great boat. We also have the boat stocked with lots of games and other nice extras.

Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199634
07/09/2019 07:08 PM
07/09/2019 07:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,719
VI,NY,AZ
sail445 Online happy
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sail445  Online Happy
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VI,NY,AZ
It seems sailing the BVI has gone from the the historical lure of pirates and plunder to the comforts of mega yachts and bidets

Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199661
07/09/2019 09:14 PM
07/09/2019 09:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 618
Ft. Worth, TX
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Lcrich Offline
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Warren, we’ve sat on many of the factory cushions wet over the years and they dried out just fine. After a week on the boat in June with the blue plastic cushions, all 7 of us were complaining of our arses hurting. They are just not a good idea! Period!

Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199671
07/10/2019 06:04 AM
07/10/2019 06:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 39
Hillsborough, NC
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This is a great conversation. I think the Lagoon 450 is a fantastic boat. Our boat, Ocean Song, a 2019 Lagoon 42 owner's version is also in the TMM fleet. As great as the Lagoon 450 is, the Lagoon 42 is shattering Lagoon sales records for a reason. The 42 is on pace to pass the Lagoon 380 as Lagoon's most popular catamaran in another 2.5 years. The 380 has been in production for nearly two decades, the 42 - for three years! There is a reason the 42 is likely to become Lagoon's all-time most popular boat. Lagoon is now opening a new production line for the 42 due to its unparalleled popularity.

The 42 has the interior volume of a much larger boat, in fact, she feels more open and airy than the 450. Her more sleek styling is less boxy, square, and cumbersome than the 450. I know two current 450 owners who are now considering the 42 for their next boat. No doubt, due to its longer waterline and greater sail area, the 450 is a faster sailboat; however, the Lagoon 42 is a much easier boat to handle. Her reduced sail plan and self-tacking jib are perfect for stress-free sail handling and wonderful sailing! Don't think for one minute the 42 doesn't sail well, she does. In fact, we have been surprised at her turn of speed when the sails are well trimmed. The 42 hits the sweet spot for sailing catamarans!

Ocean Song, is a 2019 owner's version (3 cabins) with generator, gas grill, modified helm seat, AC, radar, AIS, microwave, 2 refrigerators, freezer, large Engel cockpit cooler, and Yanmar 57's. In September she will have underwater lights installed as well as SUP and Kayak racks.

Last edited by OceanSong; 07/10/2019 06:22 AM.
Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199674
07/10/2019 06:28 AM
07/10/2019 06:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 592
Georgia & South Carolina
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Deepcut Offline
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I am currently on my Lagoon 42, Sea Tiger. which is also in TMM fleet.

In regards to space, Lagoon 450 does have somewhat more space. With 5, you will have plenty of space on the 42,

Speed is determined partially by length and the L450 is going to be faster by about 1 knot of so.

Self Tacking Jib is really nice when I am doing most of the sailing de facto single handedly.

Look for extras: A few boats in TMM have Watermakers... Very nice feature as we are 10 days into our trip and have not docked ANY for water... And crew is not in the water conserving mindset. (Having to stop for water can affect itinerary, as well as delaying for dock to open or waiting for others to leave dock. Just a couple of weeks ago, North Sound was without water, thus severely affecting those planning to sail to Anegada and needing a top off.)

Sea Tiger has 4 bean bag chairs which makes for great seats anywhere on the boat. Much better than factory cushions. (Our professional delivery captain loved them !).

Also Sea Tiger underwater lights as well as brackets for 2 Stand-Up Paddle boards, making them easier to stow and also out of the way of the deck.

And yes, TMM maintenance on the boats makes them the hands down choice.

One "draw back" of the Owner's Version(3 cabin) is that the owner's hull is so disproportionately bigger than either other stateroom, then the other guests may resent it. Just have a upfront method to dealing with this issue: Upon organizing trip "cabin assignment in order of commitment to trip (ie deposit received)" or lottery.

With your crew size, pick between the 42 and the 45, but note the extras.... especially Watermaker.


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (Lagoon 42)
Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199681
07/10/2019 07:24 AM
07/10/2019 07:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 618
Ft. Worth, TX
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Lcrich Offline
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All great info. Thank you. We will check out the L42’s in October at the TMM base.

Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: Deepcut] #199707
07/10/2019 10:55 AM
07/10/2019 10:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 39
Hillsborough, NC
OceanSong Offline
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Hillsborough, NC
Originally Posted by Deepcut
I am currently on my Lagoon 42, Sea Tiger. which is also in TMM fleet.

Look for extras: A few boats in TMM have Watermakers... Very nice feature as we are 10 days into our trip and have not docked ANY for water... And crew is not in the water conserving mindset. (Having to stop for water can affect itinerary, as well as delaying for dock to open or waiting for others to leave dock. Just a couple of weeks ago, North Sound was without water, thus severely affecting those planning to sail to Anegada and needing a top off.)

And yes, TMM maintenance on the boats makes them the hands down choice.

One "draw back" of the Owner's Version(3 cabin) is that the owner's hull is so disproportionately bigger than either other stateroom, then the other guests may resent it. Just have a upfront method to dealing with this issue: Upon organizing trip "cabin assignment in order of commitment to trip (ie deposit received)" or lottery.



In the spirit of full disclosure: I know Deepcut and Sea Tiger well, crewed the delivery of Sea Tiger from Ft. Lauderdale to Tortola. Deepcut and I, along with many other TMM owners, communicate often about our boats.

I agree that a watermaker is a very nice option, and we are looking into installing a watermaker on Ocean Song.

I also agree that TMM's boat maintenance is the best in the BVI - hands down.

However, I have to push back strongly about the owner's hull of the 3-cabin version being a "draw back". I think it's the primary reason many charterers prefer the 3-cabin version. We have had many families charter Ocean Song and the spacious master suite is a great feature, providing a degree of privacy and luxury for Mom and Dad one simply cannot get on a 4-cabin catamaran in the 40 - 50 foot range. Charterers are astonished by the open, airy feel, the storage, and added comfort as compared to the 4-cabin versions.The much larger and more functional owner's head and shower receive rave reviews. More and more charterers are now asking specifically for owner's versions.

We have also found that couples chartering Ocean Song have much preferred the 3 cabin layout to their previous charters on boats with 4 cabins. As long as the charter group (not including professional skipper) is six or fewer, the owner's version is the way to go. I think any group chartering an owners version has worked out who gets the master suite well in advance. We understand the master suite to often be the "reward" for the charter organizers. Each time fellow sailors, charterers, and catamaran owners of 4-cabin models come aboard Ocean Song they express their jealousy of our master suite. They have nothing on their boats that can be called "suites", the 4-cabin models have cabins and heads. No one has indicated that it has been a draw back, except that it draws charters back for another charter on an owner's version!

We specifically wanted an owner's version because we plan to live aboard in the future. Also, we felt it would attract more families and provide a level of comfort the 4-cabin version can't match. To date, we have been proven correct.

Last edited by OceanSong; 07/10/2019 10:58 AM.
Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199709
07/10/2019 11:06 AM
07/10/2019 11:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 292
Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin Offline
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Not sure the info is accurate, but I was surprised by the low water tankage of the 42 when I was comparing 40 footers - something like 75 gallons while the others have 200.

Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: MrEZgoin] #199713
07/10/2019 11:28 AM
07/10/2019 11:28 AM
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Posts: 13
Kansas
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flyingcloud Offline OP
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MrEZgoin,
Based on the specs on TMM's website, the L42 has 150gal water capacity and the L450 has 184gal.

Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199727
07/10/2019 01:48 PM
07/10/2019 01:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 292
Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin Offline
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Originally Posted by flyingcloud

MrEZgoin,
Based on the specs on TMM's website, the L42 has 150gal water capacity and the L450 has 184gal.


Thanks, think I got it confused with the 400S2.

Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199756
07/10/2019 05:50 PM
07/10/2019 05:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,056
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Online content
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TMM offers an option for the Lagoon 42 to add a second water tank in line with the first tank. This increases the water tankage to the advertised amount. The lagoon 450 has two independent tanks selectable via a manifold so that if a guest leaves a tap on, then you don’t run out of water. You just switch to the opposite tank.


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 450, (part of the TMM fleet until April, Charter Caribe (all inclusive-crewed) in St Thomas thereafter https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
A TTOL sponsor
Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: Deepcut] #199757
07/10/2019 06:14 PM
07/10/2019 06:14 PM
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Georgia & South Carolina
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Deepcut Offline
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Originally Posted by Deepcut


One "draw back" of the Owner's Version(3 cabin) is that the owner's hull is so disproportionately bigger than either other stateroom, then the other guests may resent it. Just have a upfront method to dealing with this issue: Upon organizing trip "cabin assignment in order of commitment to trip (ie deposit received)" or lottery.


Ocean Song:
I put quotation marks around "draw back" only to say owners version has one "Master Suite" and it is nice and even more spacious than the 4 cabin models... as intended.

When chartering ANY boat, it is good to have system of assigning berths via lottery, order of deposits, or having variable rates for the various cabins. If Mom and Dad are with the kids, No problem.... MOM gets the owner's suite and Dad joins her there if she allows him.


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (Lagoon 42)
Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: flyingcloud] #199764
07/10/2019 11:59 PM
07/10/2019 11:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
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Ft. Worth, TX
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Lcrich Offline
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Agree that the owners suite on the L450 is wonderful. We have chartered that configuration about 5 times.
We just spent a week on a 4 cabin and I really missed having the BIG side to ourselves. And there is NO question who gets it with my group. The two people that organize the trip, provision and captain! US.

Re: Lagoon 42 VS 450 [Re: Lcrich] #199773
07/11/2019 09:08 AM
07/11/2019 09:08 AM
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windward2c Offline
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The difference issue with 6 or less is not space. The 42 is an amazingly comfortable boat. You can not go wrong with either of these two options. The main (and IMHO) and only real consideration on which boat to revolves around the flybridge configuration. Whether I am on a 450 in the BVI or my 42 in Block Island if the seas permit, all my guests want to be out in the open (ie, not in what is called the cockpit. The 42 does an AMAZING job of making the helm part of cockpit area more than other cats I feel. This is a huge plus for a cruising couple like myself. It also makes docking in reverse easier to see which I do more often in the Northeast than in BVI (Yes I know there are cameras on the 450). BUT!! Whenever we have guests they want to sit up front, which leaves me either alone at the helm, or upfront with them with the remote autohelm in my hand but ready to run back as needed. On the 450, when there are 6 or even 8 people, I ALWAYS have guests sitting with me at the helm. That is the difference - not the water or the cabins or the performance. If costs were a factor the 42 will serve you well - I love it!! But if they were the same price, take the 450 and thank me later.


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