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Re: Boatyball [Re: Philggct] #217196
02/10/2020 01:40 PM
02/10/2020 01:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 44
dcareri Offline
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Because I won’t spend a dime there if it’s a restaurant or shop.


Dennis
S/V Toes in the Water
Lagoon 450
BVI Sponsors
Re: Boatyball [Re: Philggct] #217204
02/10/2020 02:17 PM
02/10/2020 02:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,417
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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GeorgeC1  Online Content
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GA/NC
The merchants in Cooper complained that the boatyball people show up late and don’t get ashore to spend money. In the past most of the balls at Cooper would be taken by 2. Now at 5 pm most boatyballs are still empty.
G

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217218
02/10/2020 04:19 PM
02/10/2020 04:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 483
Washington DC
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bailau Offline
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Washington DC
I hadnt considered George's point...the other issue is if the boatyballs in the off season are the last used (donut hole) then BB owners lose that revenue to businesses that dont use BB.

At some point they will turn almost all over to FCFS which they should have done in the first place.

Here are todays BB adventures:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/192...62799931712&notif_t=group_highlights

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217445
02/12/2020 10:34 AM
02/12/2020 10:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 28
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Dakota450 Offline
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I just returned from a week in the BVI and I have to say, the whole "getting a mooring ball" ruined the trip for me. I tried to anchor a few tim but no chain counter or markings so no idea on scope and didn't want to trust the anchor. I did reserve a boaty ball a couple of times just to allow me to take my time to get to my destination and know I had a place. One day I had reserved a ball at Anegada and arrived to find someone on my reserved ball. They told me they had reserved another ball for another night and would have to move so I took the one they reserved. After this trip, I have decided that I won't go in high season again. It's good to see all the people of the BVI getting all the customers but worrying about if I have a place to stay and then have to divert late in the day caused me more stress than I care to deal with.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217476
02/12/2020 01:59 PM
02/12/2020 01:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 600
Georgia & South Carolina
D
Deepcut Offline
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Georgia & South Carolina
Important to verify with charter company PRIOR to booking, amount of chain and how marked. Chain counter nice as well. Should also have a pretty good idea of scope based on angle of anchor rode.


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (Lagoon 42)
Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217481
02/12/2020 02:48 PM
02/12/2020 02:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 261
Tustin CA
d_fish Offline
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Tustin CA
I completely agree with Dennis - s/v Toes in the Water. We too are cruisers now and this whole boatyball fiasco is very off putting.

We do not mind taking a mooring when needed, even though we would rather anchor, however we do not wish to feel stressed reserving a mooring early in the morning, only to find a squatter on our reserved mooring later that day, then having to have words with the occupant. Nor do I wish to race to a mooring field hoping for a FCFS ball early in the day versus taking our time with a lunch or snorkel stop before arriving at our overnight destination. How to ruin a vacation.

With all this said, I'm having to convince my husband to return to the BVI as its not his favorite place to sail, but I wish to return. I have not shared the contents of this thread with him, but it has me worried. I have a feeling we will end up cutting our trip to the BVIs short and moving on. Very sad.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217486
02/12/2020 03:51 PM
02/12/2020 03:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 54
Folsom Lake, CA
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Latadjust Offline
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Folsom Lake, CA
How about Bty Ball splits the day - 11-2 for lunch/snorkel stops, 2-11 for over night. It would increase Cooper's business and spread out the demand

Re: Boatyball [Re: Latadjust] #217495
02/12/2020 06:10 PM
02/12/2020 06:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 460
Oak Park, IL
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TomGarvey Offline
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Oak Park, IL
It would also double the number of times per day the reservation holder & a squatter could be arguing over a ball. George C called it right months ago: these guys have been gradually and steadily increasing their money grab. Their business model has given boaters the choice between the 7:00 am stress they created, competing for the fewer FCFS balls when they arrive at their destination, or now paying $400+ a week for an "upgraded" membership fee to avoid the stress & FCFS shortage they also created.

In 18 years and a few hundred nights on board, I rarely was concerned about racing to get a ball, other than at Cooper, and i just planned my Copper stops to get there early. The only way this is going to get solved is for boaters to express their views in person to the ball owners & vote with their shore-side dollars.


Tom Garvey
Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217501
02/12/2020 07:43 PM
02/12/2020 07:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,960
Charlotte, NC
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NCSailor Offline
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Charlotte, NC
I will not go down in high season until North Harbor is back to normal capacity. That will likely mean I skip the BVI this year.

Re: Boatyball [Re: NCSailor] #217504
02/12/2020 08:20 PM
02/12/2020 08:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 44
dcareri Offline
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And one more point, Jost is my favorite place to check in but it’s a lot tougher with only a handful of fcfs balls now. We usually grab a ball, check in, and move on. Unless you’re willing to squat on a boatyball that’s a bit tougher now.

I’ve make it a point to thank the merchants with fcfs balls and to go have a brief civil chat with the owners of the boatyball balls that I won’t be spending my money at their bar.


Dennis
S/V Toes in the Water
Lagoon 450
Re: Boatyball [Re: TomGarvey] #217505
02/12/2020 08:32 PM
02/12/2020 08:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,722
VI,NY,AZ
sail445 Online happy
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Posts: 2,722
VI,NY,AZ
Tom trying to communicate the problems to BB is useless, they have a business and an agenda and they really don’t care about anyone’s opinion.
The charterers have to let the Moorings/Sunsail, Dream Yacht, Conch chowder, TMM etc or whomever you charter with.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217513
02/12/2020 09:23 PM
02/12/2020 09:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 57
Laserking Offline
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We were just down there last week, and it's a mess. We were at Cooper Island at 12:30 on Friday, and there are only about 8 first come first serve balls and they were all taken. They're in the far north and south ends of the anchorage. The rest of the anchorage is covered with Boaty Ball moorings, and there were only a handful of boats on them of course at that time of day. I talked to several people who had half of their crew on their phones at 6:58 in the morning and the balls at Cooper were gone by about 30 seconds after 7. Now that's a hell of a way to spend a relaxing vacation, isn't it? Besides costing Cooper Island a bunch of money in lunch business, the whole concept is offensive to me. They should absolutely not be allowed at all in a bay where the is no anchoring like Manchioneel. I've been going to BV I since 1980. This past week was my 22nd trip. There have been a lot of bad changes there over the last decade, and Boaty Ball is one of them.

Re: Boatyball [Re: Dakota450] #217514
02/12/2020 09:25 PM
02/12/2020 09:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 57
Laserking Offline
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Us too, and agree completely.

Re: Boatyball [Re: sail445] #217518
02/12/2020 10:12 PM
02/12/2020 10:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 460
Oak Park, IL
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TomGarvey Offline
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Oak Park, IL
I didn’t mean communicate with BB, they don’t own the balls, the local businesses in each anchorage do. And, I doubt the charter companies would have much influence.

Last edited by TomGarvey; 02/12/2020 10:14 PM.

Tom Garvey
Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217523
02/12/2020 11:33 PM
02/12/2020 11:33 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 496
BaardJ Offline
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Who has the BB concession at Great Harbour, JVD (i.e. who to radio or call for help from when the inevitable squatter is on your reserved ball at 5 pm with daylight fading and their crew somewhere ashore?).

Re: Boatyball [Re: BaardJ] #217527
02/13/2020 05:19 AM
02/13/2020 05:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 283
K
Kryssa Offline
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Kryssa  Offline
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Posts: 283
You can find this info on the site under each ball -

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Kryssa; 02/13/2020 05:30 AM.
Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217538
02/13/2020 08:18 AM
02/13/2020 08:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 479
road town
sleepychef Offline
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road town
just to grind your gears, yesterday guy asked me if he would be charged as he had taken a FCFS ball because he was waiting on his booked boatyball to become free, now 2 balls in use

Re: Boatyball [Re: Laserking] #217548
02/13/2020 09:26 AM
02/13/2020 09:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 28
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Dakota450 Offline
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Originally Posted by Laserking
We were just down there last week, and it's a mess. We were at Cooper Island at 12:30 on Friday, and there are only about 8 first come first serve balls and they were all taken. They're in the far north and south ends of the anchorage. The rest of the anchorage is covered with Boaty Ball moorings, and there were only a handful of boats on them of course at that time of day. I talked to several people who had half of their crew on their phones at 6:58 in the morning and the balls at Cooper were gone by about 30 seconds after 7. Now that's a hell of a way to spend a relaxing vacation, isn't it? Besides costing Cooper Island a bunch of money in lunch business, the whole concept is offensive to me. They should absolutely not be allowed at all in a bay where the is no anchoring like Manchioneel. I've been going to BV I since 1980. This past week was my 22nd trip. There have been a lot of bad changes there over the last decade, and Boaty Ball is one of them.

This was exactly my feelings and I had the same experience. I was leaving cooper when a couple of young men told me I could have a yellow ball. I got lucky

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217556
02/13/2020 10:33 AM
02/13/2020 10:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 17
M
Mariag Offline
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Cooper's a mess. No fun witnessing the dog eat dog mentality as we watched the cats racing through the mooring field trying to secure the last fcfs mooring..let alone the hazard the racers pose to swimmers, boats, etc. and this was at 11 am! So sad.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217564
02/13/2020 11:40 AM
02/13/2020 11:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 169
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Rhindley Offline
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As long as they are making money, they are not going to care what everyone writes on here...

Re: Boatyball [Re: Rhindley] #217597
02/13/2020 04:20 PM
02/13/2020 04:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 121
NJ USA
M
mcevog Offline
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NJ USA
I cant see how Cooper is doing well out of this. I was on a FCFS ball at Cooper by 1130am yesterday (2/12) as I was avoiding a few squalls that were passing down the channel... 1) there were more than a few FCFS balls open at that time, and more importantly 2) a good 75% of the Boaty Ball moorings were also open, and remained open till well into the late afternoon. So - I am thinking that Coopers lunch trade at least is taking a beating as a result of people just not showing up! Sooner or later someone will figure this out.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217607
02/13/2020 04:39 PM
02/13/2020 04:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 43
Ohio
S
Sedona Offline
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Sedona  Offline
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Ohio
We’re here now and I don’t understand the point of BB. We got very lucky once to snag a ball at 7 am. But BB is only available in a few locations. It seems better to me to plan the trip carefully and get up early each morning to snag a non-BB. Also, the orange balls at Norman are not BB.

Last edited by Sedona; 02/13/2020 04:40 PM.
Re: Boatyball [Re: Sedona] #217622
02/13/2020 10:27 PM
02/13/2020 10:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,065
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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Ontario, Canada
In full agreement. Boatyball is pointless and cause stress and aggravation for their own benefit.


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 450, (part of the TMM fleet until April, Charter Caribe (all inclusive-crewed) in St Thomas thereafter https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
A TTOL sponsor
Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217647
02/14/2020 10:12 AM
02/14/2020 10:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 43
Ohio
S
Sedona Offline
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Ohio
We are at Cooper this morning— we were very lucky to grab a non-BB early this morning while someone was leaving. Right now all of the non-BBs seem to be taken, and all but 3 BBs are empty. I’ve watched 5 boats come through looking for a ball and then depart. It appears to me that the only way to snag a BB reliably is to ante up the $400 advance reservation fee. Whole thing seems like a racket and it’s a shame to see half the bay at Cooper empty, with plenty of BB’s open, while people come in unsuccessfully looking for a mooring.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217684
02/14/2020 02:18 PM
02/14/2020 02:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 3
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Phil Harvey Offline
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Scenario: You are on a BoatyBall mooring overnight and the wind the next day is more than 30 kts. According to many charter agreements, you are not supposed to leave the mooring with wind > 30 kts, but you are unable to book a BootyBall at 7am when you try...

We were in Jost Great Harbour 3 weeks ago, and although the wind wasn't predicted to go above 30 kts, it was close, so we decided to stay but we were unable to reserve a BoatyBall at 7am. However, we were very lucky to snag a FCFS ball at about 9am -- only 3 FCFS balls freed up that day, and the other 2 were taken by dingies before the boat left the mooring.

At Cooper, all the FCFS balls were gone before we got there (very early in the day), and all of the BoatBalls were reserved, so we were forced to anchor in less than ideal conditions.

I don't like the BoatyBall system.

Re: Boatyball [Re: Phil Harvey] #217688
02/14/2020 02:30 PM
02/14/2020 02:30 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 87
Germany, Bergkamen
B
bigbone Offline
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Germany, Bergkamen
I agree

Re: Boatyball [Re: Phil Harvey] #217700
02/14/2020 04:06 PM
02/14/2020 04:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,960
Charlotte, NC
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NCSailor Offline
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Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted by Phil Harvey
Scenario: You are on a BoatyBall mooring overnight and the wind the next day is more than 30 kts. According to many charter agreements, you are not supposed to leave the mooring with wind > 30 kts, but you are unable to book a BootyBall at 7am when you try...

We were in Jost Great Harbour 3 weeks ago, and although the wind wasn't predicted to go above 30 kts, it was close, so we decided to stay but we were unable to reserve a BoatyBall at 7am. However, we were very lucky to snag a FCFS ball at about 9am -- only 3 FCFS balls freed up that day, and the other 2 were taken by dingies before the boat left the mooring.

At Cooper, all the FCFS balls were gone before we got there (very early in the day), and all of the BoatBalls were reserved, so we were forced to anchor in less than ideal conditions.

I don't like the BoatyBall system.


I don't like BB either but I am not familiar with the 30 kt provision you mention. What companies have this in their contract? The Moorings does not.

Last edited by NCSailor; 02/14/2020 04:06 PM.
Re: Boatyball [Re: NCSailor] #217702
02/14/2020 04:38 PM
02/14/2020 04:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 129
West Virgina
jrw Offline
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West Virgina
If you have an old Moor Secure receipt? I have one and it says "These moorings are NOT designed for storm conditions and if surface winds exceed 40 knots all vessels must vacate their respective mooring."

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217716
02/14/2020 06:59 PM
02/14/2020 06:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 483
Washington DC
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bailau Offline
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Washington DC
BB is getting torn up on Facebook now...at some point the BVI business's that own/lease the specific moorings will recognize they are negatively impacted financially and reputationally through reviews and this silliness will end.

Re: Boatyball [Re: bailau] #217717
02/14/2020 07:09 PM
02/14/2020 07:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,722
VI,NY,AZ
sail445 Online happy
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VI,NY,AZ
Originally Posted by bailau
BB is getting torn up on Facebook now...at some point the BVI business's that own/lease the specific moorings will recognize they are negatively impacted financially and reputationally through reviews and this silliness will end.


BB is destroying the Tourism product, it’s a nuisance and it goes against all the ads promoting BVI tourism
Personally I don’t give a dam because it doesn’t affect me and in a way it makes laugh the way the BVI government can’t see through this facade

Re: Boatyball [Re: sail445] #217720
02/14/2020 07:15 PM
02/14/2020 07:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 471
Apex, NC
agrimsrud Offline
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Apex, NC
Originally Posted by sail445


BB is destroying the Tourism product, it’s a nuisance and it goes against all the ads promoting BVI tourism
Personally I don’t give a dam because it doesn’t affect me and in a way it makes laugh the way the BVI government can’t see through this facade


I'm not following... the BVI govt has nothing to do with boatyball as far as I know. Are you suggesting otherwise?


Life's short - sail more!
Re: Boatyball [Re: agrimsrud] #217725
02/14/2020 08:22 PM
02/14/2020 08:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,722
VI,NY,AZ
sail445 Online happy
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sail445  Online Happy
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Posts: 2,722
VI,NY,AZ
BVI is a small country with most people related to someone in the government, they must know that BB is ruining their tourism package by irritating charterers.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217738
02/15/2020 06:13 AM
02/15/2020 06:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,065
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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warren460  Offline
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Ontario, Canada
Negative sentiment towards boatyball is rising. I wish boatyball would forever leave the bvi. The fcfs system was far better. I don’t recall reading posts online about problems with the fcfs system.


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 450, (part of the TMM fleet until April, Charter Caribe (all inclusive-crewed) in St Thomas thereafter https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
A TTOL sponsor
Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217747
02/15/2020 08:13 AM
02/15/2020 08:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,417
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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GeorgeC1  Online Content
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GA/NC
At some point the government has to realize that boatyball is taking BVI tourist money straight out of the BVI to the US. Perhaps a simple change to seabed licenses. “All income collected via a seabed license must be retained in the BVI.”

Last edited by GeorgeC1; 02/15/2020 08:15 AM.
Re: Boatyball [Re: NCSailor] #217771
02/15/2020 11:47 AM
02/15/2020 11:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 3
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Phil Harvey Offline
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Phil Harvey  Offline
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Originally Posted by NCSailor
I don't like BB either but I am not familiar with the 30 kt provision you mention. What companies have this in their contract? The Moorings does not.


My charter was through Navigare, and they have a 30 kt limit in the charter agreement. I do realize that the balls usually have a 40 kt limit, so I guess the idea would be that we would return to Road Town if the forecast was more than 40 kts.



Last edited by Phil Harvey; 02/15/2020 11:50 AM.
Re: Boatyball [Re: GeorgeC1] #217776
02/15/2020 12:26 PM
02/15/2020 12:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 705
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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Memphis, BVI, CT
George, while BB keeps a percentage, the mooring ball fees go to the mooring ball owners, who are BVI families or businesses. The government collects taxes on seabed licenses. And it’s not very different from someone who rents out a property with a dock and gets paid outside the BVI.

Re: Boatyball [Re: FRANKIE2] #217783
02/15/2020 02:11 PM
02/15/2020 02:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,960
Charlotte, NC
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NCSailor Offline
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Charlotte, NC
I continue to hold out hope that once North Sound is restored along Sopers Hole and Trellis Bay improving their onshore offerings BB will die a natural death. I understand the mooring owners preference for a credit card payment system instead of daily cash collection. That could be solved by a FCFS app where sailors pay on line for a numbered mooring - like parking lots in the US. Some computer programmer here on TTOL should develop that app. There is a market.

Re: Boatyball [Re: RatmansWife] #217784
02/15/2020 02:13 PM
02/15/2020 02:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 479
road town
sleepychef Offline
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road town
Except now with the "special pricing" ball owners still get $30 while BB get $71

Re: Boatyball [Re: sleepychef] #217787
02/15/2020 02:23 PM
02/15/2020 02:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 705
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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Memphis, BVI, CT
That’s the part I can’t fathom: why doesn’t the Tourist Board take a fraction of their substantial subvention and develop an app for mooring field owners to get paid by credit card? They could tie it to mooring maintenance. BB stepped in because there was a vacuum. Can’t really blame them.

Re: Boatyball [Re: sleepychef] #217792
02/15/2020 03:34 PM
02/15/2020 03:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,960
Charlotte, NC
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NCSailor Offline
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Originally Posted by sleepychef
Except now with the "special pricing" ball owners still get $30 while BB get $71


Please keep up the fight. We will visit you every trip because you recognize that there is a right way to do business.

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