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BVI Villa liability insurance for USA #235434
09/25/2020 08:44 AM
09/25/2020 08:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,082
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline OP
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Question for all that my be able to guide me. I am looking for BVI villa liability insurance which will protect me against folks who might want to litigate against me in the USA for a claim for damage at the villa in the BVI. And no the typical BVI Villa insurance does not protect you for USA claims
Thanks


tpcook
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Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: tpcook] #235435
09/25/2020 08:50 AM
09/25/2020 08:50 AM
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I'm asking because I don't know--do you live in the US?? If so, my feeling is that there is no such thing. In general, a Defendant can always be sued where they are. So, if for example, you live in Florida, you can be sued in Florida, about anything. Now, you could possibly claim what's called forum non conveniens, which basically means that the suit should proceed where the cause of action accrued, because the witnesses and evidence might be there, etc., but that would not prevent the plaintiff from suing you in the first place.


Carol Hill
Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: tpcook] #235436
09/25/2020 08:57 AM
09/25/2020 08:57 AM
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bailau Online content
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If you are a US citizen how about an umbrella (excess liability) policy? I have a very large policy with our beach house listed which in reality just provides me with an army of attorneys to defend me against guest stupidity...

Not sure if same type of policy exists in BVI (UK)

Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: bailau] #235437
09/25/2020 09:00 AM
09/25/2020 09:00 AM
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bailau--yes, that is a good answer.


Carol Hill
Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: bailau] #235438
09/25/2020 09:13 AM
09/25/2020 09:13 AM
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Houston,TX & Destin, FL
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I think that an Umbrella Policy just extends the limits of coverage on the policies that it covers (not the scope of coverage). If the underlying policy does not provide coverage for suits in the US then the umbrella would not cover those suits.I could be wrong. Won't be the first time

Last edited by pbd007; 09/25/2020 09:15 AM.
Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: tpcook] #235439
09/25/2020 09:20 AM
09/25/2020 09:20 AM
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Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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It's much worse than that. Despite being a customer of over 30 years, without a single claim, State Farm refused to give us a US umbrella policy because we owned property in the BVIs. We switched, got far better insurance, at much cheaper rates and a max umbrella policy with another, better-rated company. Lloyd's dropped us after Irma - first claim in over forty years - but one of the syndicate members picked us up, with better coverage.

One thing you can do, is make sure all business related to your BVI property is handled strictly in the BVI. Don't use a US phone number or have checks mailed to the US, for example.

Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: tpcook] #235441
09/25/2020 09:30 AM
09/25/2020 09:30 AM
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bailau Online content
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State Farm isn't built for these kind of risks...Lloyds is better for high end risks and varies between syndicates as RW points out. Chubb & Pure are also good to consider

I agree pbd007 as to adding on...My underlying $1 million is with Erie and $10 mil excess with Chubb and the beach house risk is clearly disclosed and documented on both. However I don't think the claims risks are actually contractually aligned among the underlying and excess (and could be easily wrong as well). it could be that Chubb covers everything over $1 million because Erie refuses to pay the 1st million on a claim and therefore I would be responsible for $1 million out of pocket. IMHO.

Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: tpcook] #235442
09/25/2020 09:53 AM
09/25/2020 09:53 AM
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Adagio Villa, Mahoe Bay,Virgin...
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We have our villa in BVI and are covered in Canada for Liability as a result of our Canadian home owner's insurance covering a second home - also have some liability coverage in BVI. The risk of lawsuits in an effort to get high awards is extremely low in Canada and in BVI.

Last edited by gordaguy2; 09/25/2020 09:55 AM.
Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: Carol_Hill] #235454
09/25/2020 02:10 PM
09/25/2020 02:10 PM
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South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline OP
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So far I found no carrier which will give me a worldwide umbrella.


tpcook
Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: RatmansWife] #235455
09/25/2020 02:14 PM
09/25/2020 02:14 PM
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South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline OP
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Can you give me a contact for a company that can get me the USA liability insurance for a BVI villa? Thanaks


tpcook
Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: gordaguy2] #235456
09/25/2020 02:16 PM
09/25/2020 02:16 PM
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South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline OP
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Not the case in the USA


tpcook
Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: bailau] #235458
09/25/2020 02:27 PM
09/25/2020 02:27 PM
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Generally the excess/umbrella policy will follow the terms of the underlying primary policy. You will get no additional language from the umbrella.

Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: tpcook] #235482
09/26/2020 08:50 AM
09/26/2020 08:50 AM
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To get back on the topic of how to protect yourself against a claim being made in the US.
First off this is not legal advice. You should speak with your lawyer to confirm and take the steps necessary to protect yourself.
Presumably you have a written lease that is executed by your tenants. You need to add a provision that all claims must be made in ....(pick your jurisdiction but generally where property is located) and be sure it has a clause that makes choice of law the foreign jurisdiction. If you have this then it should protect you. Not from being sued but a simple motion to dismiss or change venue it almost if not all instances will remove the suit from your domicile.
Look at charter contract provisions, cruise ship and live aboard dive ships for examples.
Another possibility is a clause that requires all disputes to be settled by arbitration.

Last edited by wizoc; 09/26/2020 08:54 AM.
Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: wizoc] #235484
09/26/2020 09:44 AM
09/26/2020 09:44 AM
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South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline OP
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Thanks, I have already done that. However, if Mr X rents the villa, pays for the villa and signs the rental agreement, then asks his friend Mr Y to come along. Mr Y gets hurt and sues. How would you handle that. In my agreement I state that Mr X, as agent for all the others is signing for all the others in the party.

And I am having several lawyers look at all of this

Last edited by tpcook; 09/26/2020 09:45 AM.

tpcook
Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: tpcook] #235485
09/26/2020 10:02 AM
09/26/2020 10:02 AM
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1-broad liability clause
2-indemnification and required insurance by the renter
3-have any person who is guest of renter sign waiver ( most unlikely)

Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: tpcook] #235486
09/26/2020 10:04 AM
09/26/2020 10:04 AM
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Adagio Villa, Mahoe Bay,Virgin...
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Thorsten - in common law I would venture to say that Mr.Y is out of luck - if your property is in BVI and that is where it happened then your lawyer should have had the venue changed to where the property is (at least that is what I would have had my lawyer argue.) cheers Brian

Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: tpcook] #235565
09/27/2020 12:40 PM
09/27/2020 12:40 PM
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bailau Online content
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TPCook-

Have you tried Lloyds?

Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: bailau] #235568
09/27/2020 12:55 PM
09/27/2020 12:55 PM
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tpcook Offline OP
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I have been told that Lloyds will do this but have idea of cost.


tpcook
Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: tpcook] #235578
09/27/2020 01:42 PM
09/27/2020 01:42 PM
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OK...good luck my friend. Surprised the situs of a suit involving your villa in BVI and a guest at your villa in BVI would be the US but I am not an attorney...

When we cant find in the box insurance solutions for high end clients we send them to Lloyds

Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: tpcook] #235592
09/27/2020 04:42 PM
09/27/2020 04:42 PM
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Redmond, WA
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I remember decades ago asking a co-worker who owned a boathouse on Lake Union in Seattle (on the same pier that that "Sleepless in Seattle" house was) whether it was difficult to insure.

She said "No, not really. You can insure it through Lloyds of London".

I remember thinking that that is actually my definition of difficult to insure :-)


M4000 "Lio Kai"
Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: MrEZgoin] #235612
09/27/2020 09:51 PM
09/27/2020 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MrEZgoin
I remember decades ago asking a co-worker who owned a boathouse on Lake Union in Seattle (on the same pier that that "Sleepless in Seattle" house was) whether it was difficult to insure.

She said "No, not really. You can insure it through Lloyds of London".

I remember thinking that that is actually my definition of difficult to insure :-)


Actually it's a situation where--if you need to ask the cost--you won't be able to consider it a solution.

Thorsten's problem is that he is not looking to insure a measurable or descriptive or photographically identifiable property value. He's looking to use insurance to escape personal liability for any possible lawsuit brought to any US courtroom upon any possible issue with his personally owned VG villa.

We all wish our insurance needs could fit seamlessly into the " No Fault" box.

Thorsten, how did you protect yourself when you had " Reef Song " ?

Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: tpcook] #235623
09/28/2020 07:01 AM
09/28/2020 07:01 AM
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Agree that the loss isn't tangible but typically a plaintiffs attorney will send a demand for policy limits as a bogey. They really don't want to have the complexity and uncertainty of a defendants bankruptcy on their hands so they tend to target the highest amount they can get and get easily. Also factoring in this is that many plaintiffs attorneys take these cases on contingency so if they don't collect they don't get paid so they would prefer a quick and easy settlement and collect their 1/3....

So assuming you have isolated the asset from the rest of your assets through a trust or LLC the target will be the maximum they think they can collect without forcing the owner of the specific asset into bankruptcy. Typically therefore these cases end up at the caps of the defendants liability policies.

I assume this is a theoretical discussion so it surprises me that a US claim can pierce BVI assets and BVI incident especially given the reputation of the BVIs as a "legal" tax haven but again not an attorney.

Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: Breeze] #235630
09/28/2020 07:58 AM
09/28/2020 07:58 AM
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South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline OP
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When I had Reef Song I at that point had not considered what the issues. were. In fact I think most USA folks do not realize who little insurance they have against losing everything. I lost 300k out of pocket.


tpcook
Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: tpcook] #235665
09/28/2020 02:22 PM
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very sorry to hear this isn't a theoretical exercise my friend....

Re: BVI Villa liability insurance for USA [Re: tpcook] #235673
09/28/2020 03:42 PM
09/28/2020 03:42 PM
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South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline OP
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Reef Song was a USA Delaware documented yacht with a homeport of Westport, CT So the liability insurance was USA and would have covered any USA liability issues.


tpcook

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