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Re: Rocking, rolly all night long!
[Re: StormJib]
#71829
10/21/2015 11:02 PM
10/21/2015 11:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 26 Colorado
3rdTimesaCharm
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 26
Colorado
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Jib - Where do you typically check for these forecasts?
Sailing * Sunning * Snorkeling * Swashbuckling BVI 2003/2006/2008/2015/2016 (My head isn't that big, I'm just closer to the camera ... really ;-)
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Re: Rocking, rolly all night long!
[Re: warren460]
#71831
10/22/2015 12:34 AM
10/22/2015 12:34 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 875 Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 875
Redmond, WA
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Swell height is measured in open water... swells with a longer period move faster and contain more energy and expend that energy when they reach shore. I generally take notice when the swell period is in double digits.
M4000 "Lio Kai"
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Re: Rocking, rolly all night long!
[Re: Lcrich]
#71841
10/22/2015 03:51 PM
10/22/2015 03:51 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,155 GA/NC
GeorgeC1
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,155
GA/NC
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Lcrich said: We picked up a mooring ball last night at White Bay, JVD. It was the roughest night we have EVER spent anywhere!! We rocked and rolled all night. And it wasn't even windy enough to to sail yesterday and today. Drats! The forecast for that night was for a bad N swell and also a chance of storms. Not a night to even consider staying in White Bay. I would only overnight there with a perfect forecast. G
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Re: Rocking, rolly all night long!
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#71842
10/22/2015 04:07 PM
10/22/2015 04:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,199 Devon, UK
salica
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Traveler
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,199
Devon, UK
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There was a time when White Bay was redlined by many charter companies. Not sure that is still the case, but this shows exactly why it was. I will never forget snorkelling in the bay and seeing the debris of a boat wreck. I had no idea it had happened a couple of days beforehand and it was shocking to see things like crockery, cutlery, pillows and towels on the sea bed, plus untold damage to the coral reef. Not a place for an over night stay unless you can (and of course, you rarely can) be 100% certain of the potential conditions.
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Re: Rocking, rolly all night long!
[Re: salica]
#71844
10/22/2015 07:35 PM
10/22/2015 07:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,040 Charlotte, NC
NCSailor
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,040
Charlotte, NC
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salica said: There was a time when White Bay was redlined by many charter companies. Not sure that is still the case, but this shows exactly why it was. I will never forget snorkelling in the bay and seeing the debris of a boat wreck. I had no idea it had happened a couple of days beforehand and it was shocking to see things like crockery, cutlery, pillows and towels on the sea bed, plus untold damage to the coral reef. Not a place for an over night stay unless you can (and of course, you rarely can) be 100% certain of the potential conditions. It was redlined because the entries through the reef were not marked.
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Re: Rocking, rolly all night long!
[Re: NCSailor]
#71845
10/22/2015 08:23 PM
10/22/2015 08:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
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NCSailor said:salica said: There was a time when White Bay was redlined by many charter companies. Not sure that is still the case, but this shows exactly why it was. I will never forget snorkelling in the bay and seeing the debris of a boat wreck. I had no idea it had happened a couple of days beforehand and it was shocking to see things like crockery, cutlery, pillows and towels on the sea bed, plus untold damage to the coral reef. Not a place for an over night stay unless you can (and of course, you rarely can) be 100% certain of the potential conditions. It was redlined because the entries through the reef were not marked. It was and is red lined for a long list of reason starting with getting in, then weather and sea state changes during both the day and night, overcrowded intoxicated operation, and then the same danger for many trying to leave in any condition.
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Re: Rocking, rolly all night long!
[Re: jagmansr]
#71847
10/22/2015 09:21 PM
10/22/2015 09:21 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 643 Ft. Worth, TX
Lcrich
OP
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 643
Ft. Worth, TX
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We looked at weather that night and did not see anything. And zero wind all day! Guess we need a new weather channel!
Last edited by Lcrich; 10/22/2015 09:23 PM.
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Re: Rocking, rolly all night long!
[Re: jagmansr]
#71848
10/22/2015 09:28 PM
10/22/2015 09:28 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,219 JAX
jphart
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,219
JAX
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jagmansr said: We have a boat in charter and White Bay is indeed redlined. We sail at least 3 times a year and find grabbing a mooring ball at Great Harbor and taking the dingy over to White Bay is no big deal. As an owner I expect all charter's first concern is to protect the safety of their chartered boat. Anything less and please rent another boat. White Bay is redlined by most companies for good reason. Not mooring at White Bay won't detract from a great sailing experience I've chartered w/ Moorings, Sunsail, Footloose and Conch Charters. None of their charts or pre-chart briefing instructions mentioned red lining JVD WB. However, I have never overnighted there, even left one time because the traffic was too crazy! Last trip, we arrived early and left by mid afternoon to Little Harbour to avoid the crazies. I wouldn't want to be faced with moving late after a day of drinking Soggy Dollar Painkillers!
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Re: Rocking, rolly all night long!
[Re: Lcrich]
#71849
10/22/2015 09:47 PM
10/22/2015 09:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
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Lcrich said: We looked at weather that night and did not see anything. And zero wind all day! Guess we need a new weather channel! Did you look at and can you translate how the swell forecast will change the conditions in the White Bay anchorage? The change in swell that has traveled thousands of miles is the biggest threat once inside the anchorage. I short micro burst can be scary but manageable for the few minutes they normally last. Waking up to rollers is an entirely different animal. I was in Salt Whistle Bay, Mayreau one afternoon where the swell switch and in minutes all the cat on anchored in the shallow water ended up on the beach. The mono's in deeper water just swung and rolled. The cats were launched onto the beach. All in minutes.
Last edited by StormJib; 10/22/2015 09:49 PM.
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Re: Rocking, rolly all night long!
[Re: jagmansr]
#71852
10/23/2015 08:20 AM
10/23/2015 08:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,040 Charlotte, NC
NCSailor
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,040
Charlotte, NC
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jagmansr said: We have a boat in charter and White Bay is indeed redlined. We sail at least 3 times a year and find grabbing a mooring ball at Great Harbor and taking the dingy over to White Bay is no big deal. As an owner I expect all charter's first concern is to protect the safety of their chartered boat. Anything less and please rent another boat. White Bay is redlined by most companies for good reason. Not mooring at White Bay won't detract from a great sailing experience White Bay is not redlined by most charter companies. Maybe yours but not the TUIGroup charter companies which dominate the market and many others.
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Re: Rocking, rolly all night long!
[Re: jagmansr]
#71858
10/23/2015 04:56 PM
10/23/2015 04:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,040 Charlotte, NC
NCSailor
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,040
Charlotte, NC
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jagmansr said: Last year most of the charter companies did redline White Bay. Reason being it has more boat damage done than any other place in the BVI. There was a thread about this last year. We love sharing our boat and in doing so appreciate people respecting the investment in our boat. Most if not all owners expect the same. Why put your entire vacation at risk let alone increase the likelihood of damage just to sail into the most dangerous spot in the BVI when you can still get there with a 5 minute dingy ride? You keep saying "most" charter companies have redlined White Bay. By "most" do you mean the number of boats or "most" by the number of invdividual companies regardless of the fleet size. Which charter companies have redlined?
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Re: Rocking, rolly all night long!
[Re: NCSailor]
#71859
10/23/2015 06:42 PM
10/23/2015 06:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
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NCSailor said:jagmansr said: Last year most of the charter companies did redline White Bay. Reason being it has more boat damage done than any other place in the BVI. There was a thread about this last year. We love sharing our boat and in doing so appreciate people respecting the investment in our boat. Most if not all owners expect the same. Why put your entire vacation at risk let alone increase the likelihood of damage just to sail into the most dangerous spot in the BVI when you can still get there with a 5 minute dingy ride? You keep saying "most" charter companies have redlined White Bay. By "most" do you mean the number of boats or "most" by the number of invdividual companies regardless of the fleet size. Which charter companies have redlined? Over time I expect all the operators have or will at one point ban visits to the place. I have decades of BVI charter charts that show the White Bay off limits. It depends on who is in charge at the moment. The insurance underwriter, marketing and sales arm, or the guys who have to fix the boats or explain to the next guest on the dock why their reserved yacht is unavailable. White Bay would never fit the definition of safe to the prudent mariner. Wide open for 180 degrees, very shallow area immediately adjacent to deep open water with one a narrow passage to get out. A very small, very shallow anchorage with an unforgiving shore. The place is textbook for disaster and there is real good history of boats lost there in minutes. On top of the small unsafe unprotected anchorage we load in drunks, amateurs, and their "helpful" crews, guests, and admirals. I have gone in there for years with rental boats. I would not take my own boat that was important to me in there. Too much risk from the guy I do not know next to me. Back to the charter operator. To them it is like running a skating rink. Some customers will get hurt, it is a cost of doing business. If the operators redlined all the areas that should be redlined. The proper places would be very crowded that is bad for business. No prudent mariner should be in Cane Garden or Deadmans Bay either. Back to White Bay before you go in there make sure you know whether the swell is forecast to change in size or direction. Make sure you and your entire crew is ready to exit at a moments notice. Otherwise be prepared to get off the boat and call the charter company to come get the boat parts off the beach/reef.
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Re: Rocking, rolly all night long!
[Re: Sunnykm]
#71866
10/25/2015 01:57 AM
10/25/2015 01:57 AM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,155 GA/NC
GeorgeC1
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,155
GA/NC
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Most of what you get as far as waves are wind driven. Generally out of the East in the BVI. Wind driven waves are generally short duration and peaky making for a poor boat ride going into the wind. The North swell common in the winter is a long duration deep wave that originates off the Eastern US. The swells roll all the way down to Caribbean. They are very comfortable to sail in even when large as they provide a nice smooth motion. They become a problem when they hit shallow water and become steeper faced or even breaking waves. Because they are moving large amounts of water they can work their way around and into anchorages that don't even face North. You can have a north swell on a otherwise perfectly calm day. You can also have a strong east wind that will produce the wind chop 90 degrees to the swell. Since the swell originates far away the forecasting is very accurate. It's almost down to the hour when they will begin and end . There is no reason to be surprised. I often change my itinerary based on the swell forecast. You don't want to be overnighting in CDB or White Bay with a swell predicted. G
Last edited by GeorgeC1; 10/25/2015 01:58 AM.
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