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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: Kryssa]
#225335
04/23/2020 09:29 AM
04/23/2020 09:29 AM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 251 Okla
ScurvyD
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Traveler
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 251
Okla
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What is the Moorings telling you? In light of the current situation, I can't imagine that they would have a problem with you waiting to make your final payment. You still have plenty of time, so don't get in a hurry to make a decision that doesn't need to be made. Cross the bridge when you get there. I would think you are in the drivers seat, but I've been wrong before. A lot.
I'd like to be a jelly fish, cause jelly fish don't pay rent.
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: ScurvyD]
#225369
04/23/2020 12:24 PM
04/23/2020 12:24 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 856 Houston, Texas
louismcc
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 856
Houston, Texas
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What is the Moorings telling you? In light of the current situation, I can't imagine that they would have a problem with you waiting to make your final payment. You still have plenty of time, so don't get in a hurry to make a decision that doesn't need to be made. Cross the bridge when you get there. I would think you are in the drivers seat, but I've been wrong before. A lot. Based on their website, they're dealing with cancelled charters through 06/01. If you have a charter after that date, you are subject to their normal cancellation policies. We had to make the final payment this month to protect our July charter. I doubt that it will happen but Moorings has not yet cancelled it. We'll most likely do a reschedule to next July.
Louis from Houston
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: Kryssa]
#225383
04/23/2020 04:53 PM
04/23/2020 04:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 111 Denver & Breckenridge, CO
BreckSailor
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 111
Denver & Breckenridge, CO
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This general topic has been discussed in other places on TTOL. Here's what I'll say - in general, its a horrible idea to just take a credit for future travel. That is nothing more than an unsecured loan to a company (Moorings) which may have zero value in the future. Reading your contract carefully is important - particularly with that dealing with Force Majeure (Acts of God including pandemic which was never specifically contemplated before). At some level, you'll have to make a bet with your own trip and funds.
I was in the exact same situation with Dream Yachts and got them to delay our final payment (in writing) and extend the period of time for which we had to make a decision with only a relatively small cancellation fee (500 Euro). I do appreciate their willingness to delay/modify in our case - it was certainly the right thing for them to do. I'd suggest you work hard with Moorings to modify their cancellation/deposit terms - keeping your deposit for several more weeks in an effort to defer your cancellation rather than just keeping the smaller cancellation penalty is very much in their favor (to be clear, that, too, is a free unsecured loan from you).
One last thing - I've heard someone say that Moorings is owned by private equity with significant funding. Let me clear about this - and I am personally involved with private equity and see its great benefits - you and others should not get strong positive feelings from its private equity ownership. They love that customers will provide free unsecured funding in terms of credits - I would too.
Here's what I'll also say - I do not see charter prices increasing in the future - in fact, I see them decreasing. Rebooking trips is likely to be easily done in the future, at lower prices. Sad, but true - unfortunately.
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: Kryssa]
#225441
04/24/2020 12:20 PM
04/24/2020 12:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,359 Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
JasonHelmbrecht
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,359
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
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I know this goes against what everyone is doing, but Navigare is offering a special until end of day. 50% off gift cards valid for 1 year. If you want to take a $10k trip, you can purchase a $5k gift card now and save the extra $5k. I get it, financing a charter company, etc but 100% return in 12 months is a pretty good financing deal. Link to special.
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: Deepcut]
#225442
04/24/2020 12:29 PM
04/24/2020 12:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 856 Houston, Texas
louismcc
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 856
Houston, Texas
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Does contract actually state there is "Force Majure" clause or is it implied? Most contracts I have reviewed state "nonrefundable" after a certain date, or similar language. It would be interesting to see exactly what the contract cancellation clause states.
Not being a lawyer I won't pretend to understand all the ramifications, but below is from their contract: 5.2 We also reserve the right to recall the yacht due to unexpected circumstances (e.g. severe weather conditions etc.) in which case we may give you a credit certificate for use on future charters, extend your charter, or cancel your charter. If we cancel your charter except for reasons beyond our control or as a result of your non-payment of any amounts due under the contract, you are entitled to receive a full refund of all monies paid. Notwithstanding the foregoing, no refund or compensation will be paid if your charter is cancelled due to unusual and unforeseeable circumstances beyond our control, the consequences of which could not be avoided even if all due carte had been exercised; such as (by way of example and not by way of limitation) war, riots, civil disturbances, industrial dispute, terrorist activity, natural or nuclear disaster, fire, adverse weather conditions, acts of God, unforeseeable technical problems with transport for reasons beyond our control or that of our suppliers, closed or congested ports, hurricanes and other actual or potential adverse weather conditions, flood, epidemics, health risks or pandemics or any other similar events or unforeseen circumstances that may amount to force majeure.
Louis from Houston
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: louismcc]
#225457
04/24/2020 03:36 PM
04/24/2020 03:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 148 Folsom Lake, CA
Latadjust
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 148
Folsom Lake, CA
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Does contract actually state there is "Force Majure" clause or is it implied? Most contracts I have reviewed state "nonrefundable" after a certain date, or similar language. It would be interesting to see exactly what the contract cancellation clause states.
Not being a lawyer I won't pretend to understand all the ramifications, but below is from their contract: 5.2 We also reserve the right to recall the yacht due to unexpected circumstances (e.g. severe weather conditions etc.) in which case we may give you a credit certificate for use on future charters, extend your charter, or cancel your charter. If we cancel your charter except for reasons beyond our control or as a result of your non-payment of any amounts due under the contract, you are entitled to receive a full refund of all monies paid. Notwithstanding the foregoing, no refund or compensation will be paid if your charter is cancelled due to unusual and unforeseeable circumstances beyond our control, the consequences of which could not be avoided even if all due carte had been exercised; such as (by way of example and not by way of limitation) war, riots, civil disturbances, industrial dispute, terrorist activity, natural or nuclear disaster, fire, adverse weather conditions, acts of God, unforeseeable technical problems with transport for reasons beyond our control or that of our suppliers, closed or congested ports, hurricanes and other actual or potential adverse weather conditions, flood, epidemics, health risks or pandemics or any other similar events or unforeseen circumstances that may amount to force majeure. .....they forgot the kitchen sink.
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: JasonHelmbrecht]
#225461
04/24/2020 05:03 PM
04/24/2020 05:03 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 296
Kryssa
OP
Traveler
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OP
Traveler
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 296
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I know this goes against what everyone is doing, but Navigare is offering a special until end of day. 50% off gift cards valid for 1 year. If you want to take a $10k trip, you can purchase a $5k gift card now and save the extra $5k. I get it, financing a charter company, etc but 100% return in 12 months is a pretty good financing deal. Link to special. I'd be worried they'd go out of business before I could travel!
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: Latadjust]
#225462
04/24/2020 05:08 PM
04/24/2020 05:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 856 Houston, Texas
louismcc
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 856
Houston, Texas
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Does contract actually state there is "Force Majure" clause or is it implied? Most contracts I have reviewed state "nonrefundable" after a certain date, or similar language. It would be interesting to see exactly what the contract cancellation clause states.
Not being a lawyer I won't pretend to understand all the ramifications, but below is from their contract: 5.2 We also reserve the right to recall the yacht due to unexpected circumstances (e.g. severe weather conditions etc.) in which case we may give you a credit certificate for use on future charters, extend your charter, or cancel your charter. If we cancel your charter except for reasons beyond our control or as a result of your non-payment of any amounts due under the contract, you are entitled to receive a full refund of all monies paid. Notwithstanding the foregoing, no refund or compensation will be paid if your charter is cancelled due to unusual and unforeseeable circumstances beyond our control, the consequences of which could not be avoided even if all due carte had been exercised; such as (by way of example and not by way of limitation) war, riots, civil disturbances, industrial dispute, terrorist activity, natural or nuclear disaster, fire, adverse weather conditions, acts of God, unforeseeable technical problems with transport for reasons beyond our control or that of our suppliers, closed or congested ports, hurricanes and other actual or potential adverse weather conditions, flood, epidemics, health risks or pandemics or any other similar events or unforeseen circumstances that may amount to force majeure. .....they forgot the kitchen sink. I think I sent them the kitchen sink with the deposit. This is our 14th charter with Moorings, going back to the days before they accepted credit cards. I know I'm putting a lot of faith in their ability to handle circumstances beyond their control. Based on our many years working with them, including a post-Irma charter in 2018, they've earned my trust.
Louis from Houston
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: Kryssa]
#225465
04/24/2020 06:46 PM
04/24/2020 06:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,040 Charlotte, NC
NCSailor
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,040
Charlotte, NC
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I know this goes against what everyone is doing, but Navigare is offering a special until end of day. 50% off gift cards valid for 1 year. If you want to take a $10k trip, you can purchase a $5k gift card now and save the extra $5k. I get it, financing a charter company, etc but 100% return in 12 months is a pretty good financing deal. Link to special. I'd be worried they'd go out of business before I could travel! I agree.
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: louismcc]
#225475
04/24/2020 09:32 PM
04/24/2020 09:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 148 Folsom Lake, CA
Latadjust
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 148
Folsom Lake, CA
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Does contract actually state there is "Force Majure" clause or is it implied? Most contracts I have reviewed state "nonrefundable" after a certain date, or similar language. It would be interesting to see exactly what the contract cancellation clause states.
Not being a lawyer I won't pretend to understand all the ramifications, but below is from their contract: 5.2 We also reserve the right to recall the yacht due to unexpected circumstances (e.g. severe weather conditions etc.) in which case we may give you a credit certificate for use on future charters, extend your charter, or cancel your charter. If we cancel your charter except for reasons beyond our control or as a result of your non-payment of any amounts due under the contract, you are entitled to receive a full refund of all monies paid. Notwithstanding the foregoing, no refund or compensation will be paid if your charter is cancelled due to unusual and unforeseeable circumstances beyond our control, the consequences of which could not be avoided even if all due carte had been exercised; such as (by way of example and not by way of limitation) war, riots, civil disturbances, industrial dispute, terrorist activity, natural or nuclear disaster, fire, adverse weather conditions, acts of God, unforeseeable technical problems with transport for reasons beyond our control or that of our suppliers, closed or congested ports, hurricanes and other actual or potential adverse weather conditions, flood, epidemics, health risks or pandemics or any other similar events or unforeseen circumstances that may amount to force majeure. .....they forgot the kitchen sink. I think I sent them the kitchen sink with the deposit. This is our 14th charter with Moorings, going back to the days before they accepted credit cards. I know I'm putting a lot of faith in their ability to handle circumstances beyond their control. Based on our many years working with them, including a post-Irma charter in 2018, they've earned my trust. I agree, they've done well by us, not that others haven't. Over all, I'm happy with the all the bare boat charter operators in the BVI that we've patronized, and I'd take the credit - sometimes you just gotta have faith! Otherwise I feel like I'd be contributing to a self fulfilling professy.
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: WantOwnersTime]
#225502
04/25/2020 05:02 PM
04/25/2020 05:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 296
Kryssa
OP
Traveler
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 296
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I was supposed to be sailing in Tahiti this week - that trip was canceled a month ago. MOORINGs gave me a credit. No refund. I had a week scheduled in BVIs for last week of July. I canceled that - and got another credit. No refund. Is there a expiration date on the credits?
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: Kryssa]
#225504
04/25/2020 06:17 PM
04/25/2020 06:17 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
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Traveler
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
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Seems like a pretty heavily weighted contract for the charter company. I think if we were to charter again, I'd cross off that section, sign it and see what happens. Basically as I read it, if ANYTHING happens that they can't control (including this current situation) they aren't under any obligation to refund or even offer a credit. Charging for a service that can't be provided is not a good way to do business.
Matt
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: Kryssa]
#225566
04/26/2020 05:31 PM
04/26/2020 05:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 3
Tanley
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Member
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 3
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I was supposed to be sailing in Tahiti this week - that trip was canceled a month ago. MOORINGs gave me a credit. No refund. I had a week scheduled in BVIs for last week of July. I canceled that - and got another credit. No refund. Is there a expiration date on the credits? We were sailing w/ the Moorings just before they locked down the BVI and ended up returning the boat a day early as we could feel things getting squirrelly. The Moorings gave us full credit for the last day, no issues. Very happy with how they handled the situation. Credit is good for 3 years.
Last edited by Tanley; 04/26/2020 05:32 PM.
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: Kryssa]
#225719
04/29/2020 11:53 PM
04/29/2020 11:53 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 856 Houston, Texas
louismcc
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 856
Houston, Texas
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Moorings just posted they're suspending all chargers up until 06/15. We're scheduled for 07/03 which I'm pretty sure Moorings will get around to cancelling in a couple of weeks. I know they're busy with rescheduling the suspended charters, but I'll be happy when they finally get to our dates so that we can plot out when we'll reschedule. That will probably be in the same time frame in 2021.
Louis from Houston
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: Kryssa]
#225841
05/01/2020 07:56 PM
05/01/2020 07:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 330 Hilton Head, SC
Steve27
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 330
Hilton Head, SC
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We were traveling with The Moorings for June 12th, however that obviously has been cancelled. They have suspended travel through June 15th. Our charter price was just over $10,000 and they wanted us to pay in full to allow us to change our charter dates without a change fee of $1,000. We did not pay in full because if we did and had to change again under their terms we would forfeit all $10,000. I am not willing to give them $10,000 for 13 months interest free and a possibility of losing it all. I was even offering to keep what was down on the deposit and pay the higher charter fee for next years pricing, but they would not do that either. Poor business practice when you cancel a trip, but still want the trip paid in full. There was no other date we could have gone till next year. I have chartered with Moorings for years, but may just have to leave and charter with another company next year.
Cruising the local waters here in SC and GA. Love the BVIs and miss the Tradewinds!
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: Steve27]
#225852
05/02/2020 01:46 AM
05/02/2020 01:46 AM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 296
Kryssa
OP
Traveler
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Posts: 296
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Steve - So you opted to allow them to keep the $3500+ deposit and didn't pay the balance?
Last edited by Kryssa; 05/02/2020 01:47 AM.
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: Steve27]
#225857
05/02/2020 07:47 AM
05/02/2020 07:47 AM
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,426 Washington DC
bailau
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,426
Washington DC
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We were traveling with The Moorings for June 12th, however that obviously has been cancelled. They have suspended travel through June 15th. Our charter price was just over $10,000 and they wanted us to pay in full to allow us to change our charter dates without a change fee of $1,000. We did not pay in full because if we did and had to change again under their terms we would forfeit all $10,000. I am not willing to give them $10,000 for 13 months interest free and a possibility of losing it all. I was even offering to keep what was down on the deposit and pay the higher charter fee for next years pricing, but they would not do that either. Poor business practice when you cancel a trip, but still want the trip paid in full. There was no other date we could have gone till next year. I have chartered with Moorings for years, but may just have to leave and charter with another company next year. If you paid by credit card then why don't you file a credit card dispute since they cant deliver?
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: Steve27]
#226129
05/06/2020 02:19 PM
05/06/2020 02:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 972 Middleburg, VA
cwoody
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Traveler
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Middleburg, VA
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Moorings seems to be very short sighted with their approach.
Horizon Yacht Charters handled this situation properly. Our contract with Horizon stated final "Full" payment due 45 days before the "Charter Start Date" June 10. Since we obviously are not going to start our charter on June 10 that is no longer our "Charter Start Date". We moved the charter to January 2021. Out final payment is now due 45 days before our updated Charter Start Date on Jan 4.
Chuck W.
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: cwoody]
#226167
05/07/2020 05:47 AM
05/07/2020 05:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 945 Georgia & South Carolina
Deepcut
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 945
Georgia & South Carolina
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Moorings seems to be very short sighted with their approach.
Horizon Yacht Charters handled this situation properly. Our contract with Horizon stated final "Full" payment due 45 days before the "Charter Start Date" June 10. Since we obviously are not going to start our charter on June 10 that is no longer our "Charter Start Date". We moved the charter to January 2021. Out final payment is now due 45 days before our updated Charter Start Date on Jan 4. I think this is a reasonable response and is what we did with Sea Tiger. Contract for horizon probably did not mandate this but moving charter out to new day with deposit moved as a credit, and not requiring final payment until closer to new charter date.
Last edited by Deepcut; 05/07/2020 05:52 AM.
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: Kryssa]
#226293
05/09/2020 04:21 PM
05/09/2020 04:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 330 Hilton Head, SC
Steve27
Traveler
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Traveler
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Posts: 330
Hilton Head, SC
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Ok a little update...As far as paying in full for a trip next year is not the prudent thing to do, because for some reason the situation comes up again and you have to cancel you are now out the $10,000+. Says so in the contract. As far as disputing with the CC Company we talked with them as a back up plan and they said if the Charterer cancels the trip they maybe able to get the deposit back. That was a maybe. The whole time I was dealing with the Moorings and made sure to point out we have been loyal customers for years now. I understand they are probably strapped for cash and need to keep those deposits. We did come to an agreement of taking a CNOTE (Moving our deposit) to next June, but paying the 2021 pricing instead of the 2020 pricing. I was ok with this since I got an early booking discount and a prepaid fuel option that we did not have for this year. So we will be all set for a 514PC on June 19, 2021.
Cruising the local waters here in SC and GA. Love the BVIs and miss the Tradewinds!
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: NCSailor]
#226300
05/09/2020 08:00 PM
05/09/2020 08:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 945 Georgia & South Carolina
Deepcut
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 945
Georgia & South Carolina
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The Moorings made it through Irma/Maria. Granted that wasn't worldwide. They have very PE backing. The Moorings will be back. Being world wide has diversity for most things, especially local disasters such as hurricanes. This pandemic is difficult economically for them as they cannot balance things out globally since globally there has been economic downfall globally. Will Mooring survive?I think so. Not sure they will continue to pay out their guarantee income program but I hope so.
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: Kryssa]
#226301
05/09/2020 08:09 PM
05/09/2020 08:09 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,711 Memphis, BVI, CT
RatmansWife
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Posts: 1,711
Memphis, BVI, CT
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The discouraging thing is they have no control over their recovery. At least after Irma, once the base and boats were repaired, they were back in business. Same for property owners, both houses and hotels. With this pandemic, it's totally up to the government and airlines when people can come back, and travelers as to when they can afford and want to travel.
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: RatmansWife]
#226302
05/09/2020 08:22 PM
05/09/2020 08:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 945 Georgia & South Carolina
Deepcut
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 945
Georgia & South Carolina
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The discouraging thing is they have no control over their recovery. At least after Irma, once the base and boats were repaired, they were back in business. Same for property owners, both houses and hotels. With this pandemic, it's totally up to the government and airlines when people can come back, and travelers as to when they can afford and want to travel. Agree. Personally (and as a physician) I think the news needs to emphasize HOW to properly wear mask and use hand sanitizer. I watched the check out lady with "dirty hands (as she had touched many items, reach up to mask (Which was NOT covering nose), move mask some (ie depositing germs + possible virus onto mask), scratch her nose, and then back to next item of someone else (Possible transfer of HER virus to their items. She had no clue as to how her habits are NOT safe. I personally can travel safely to by airplane as I know to hand Sanitizer before touching my mask and clean area around me upon arrival. Not 100% safe , but a safe way to do it. Now IF BVI will open up borders, perhaps with restrictions.
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Re: Refunds from Moorings?
[Re: Kryssa]
#226305
05/09/2020 10:00 PM
05/09/2020 10:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,155 GA/NC
GeorgeC1
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,155
GA/NC
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To be fair to Moorings their rebooking policy is in line with all the other charter companies. Horizon is granting full refunds if the charter is more than 90 days out but that is their contractual policy for normal times. It’s going to be difficult for many companies to sell boats going forward given dropping payments on guaranteed contracts and the poor performance of shared revenue boats. The moorings is honoring their contracts both to owners and charterers. My contract is up in 60 days but I plan on another 5 year contract. Starting next year. G
Last edited by GeorgeC1; 05/09/2020 10:02 PM.
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