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BVI Impounding boats #240275
11/19/2020 06:45 PM
11/19/2020 06:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,277
Saint Thomas, USVI
CaptainJay Offline OP
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CaptainJay  Offline OP
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Saint Thomas, USVI
I just spoke to a contact that I trust in the BVI's. They stopped and impounded two vessels today for entering BVI waters. The boat he knew of personally was a 1/4 mile inside BVI waters. Sailing with no intention of landing onshore. This would normally be considered an innocent passage. He was fined twenty thousand dollars.

If you are chartering or sailing in USVI waters do not cross the border.

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Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240277
11/19/2020 07:00 PM
11/19/2020 07:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 559
Apex, NC
agrimsrud Offline
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Apex, NC
Jay - private boats or charter boats? If charter, what company?
I've was chased by the BVI patrol boat last summer. I believe I was inside US waters when they came to yell at me. But not necessarily clear on the chart plotter where the border is located. This past charter in November I made the first tack very early to make sure they understood I knew not to cross into BVI waters. When CPB is broke, bored, and paranoid bad things can happen.


Life's short - sail more!
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240278
11/19/2020 07:10 PM
11/19/2020 07:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,994
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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All boats have a right of innocent passage and I believe the BVI has signed those accords. This should become a government to government issue.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240279
11/19/2020 07:10 PM
11/19/2020 07:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,277
Saint Thomas, USVI
CaptainJay Offline OP
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Saint Thomas, USVI
The boat that I could confirm is private.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240281
11/19/2020 07:40 PM
11/19/2020 07:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,347
USVI
LocalSailor Offline
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USVI
Tacking upwind in Drakes Passage - especially around the Narrows -- it is almost impossible not to cross into BVI waters .I did hear of a vessel being fined earlier this week.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240285
11/19/2020 10:01 PM
11/19/2020 10:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 933
Georgia & South Carolina
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Deepcut Offline
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Georgia & South Carolina
WOW, I sailed around St John last month and I am pretty sure I crossed the line. I felt I was "innocent passage".

I would think CBP would recognize a boat with full sails underway is not trying to enter country and spread Covid 19. If sails dropped and idle speed, I could understand CBP taking a closer look.


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (2022 Lagoon 46)
www.BareBoatBVI.com

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: Deepcut] #240291
11/20/2020 01:05 AM
11/20/2020 01:05 AM
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Posts: 3,003
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sail445 Offline
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Originally Posted by Deepcut
WOW, I sailed around St John last month and I am pretty sure I crossed the line. I felt I was "innocent passage".

I would think CBP would recognize a boat with full sails underway is not trying to enter country and spread Covid 19. If sails dropped and idle speed, I could understand CBP taking a closer look.

The problem when you have mental midgets in CBP.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240292
11/20/2020 03:38 AM
11/20/2020 03:38 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,496
Grenada
Zanshin Online content
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Grenada
There is most certainly more to this story than a sailboat tacking upwind and crossing the border between the BVI and the USVI. Both countries UNCLOS signatories and due to the wind direction in the Sir Francis Drake Channel boats sailing upwind are forced to repeatedly cross the water border. Both border patrols know this and it is impossible for the officers not to know these rules. Hence there are elements in this that we haven't been told about.

If the boat was just sailing, then this case will go to Den Haag and the BVI will not only have to pay back fines and damages, but will get fined as well.

p.s. The U.S.A. and Britain are signatories of the Hague Conventions of 1899 and the BVI was grandfathered in as a British Overseas Territory. The international permanent court of arbitration is where this type of case would be heard, and it sits in Den Haag, Netherlands.

Last edited by Zanshin; 11/20/2020 03:49 AM. Reason: Added postscript

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Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240320
11/20/2020 12:34 PM
11/20/2020 12:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,266
Vero Beach, Fl and South Sound...
tpcook Offline
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Vero Beach, Fl and South Sound...
Very poor public relations for BVI. Especially a 20k fine??


tpcook
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240327
11/20/2020 01:31 PM
11/20/2020 01:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,496
Grenada
Zanshin Online content
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Grenada
I still can't find any corroboration of this anywhere. There are clear rules as to when the BVI might think that this is not innocent passage - the most likely one is if they were fishing..


[Linked Image]
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240345
11/20/2020 03:15 PM
11/20/2020 03:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,148
road town
sleepychef Offline
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Last edited by sleepychef; 11/20/2020 03:16 PM.
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240347
11/20/2020 03:32 PM
11/20/2020 03:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
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sail445 Offline
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The BVI don’t go by the rules and maritime laws because each person in law enforcement go by what they think at the moment and don’t know most of the laws.
About 15 years ago a boat coming in from St Maarten arrived at night with their yellow flag up dropped anchor and in the morning had their boat confiscated before C&I opened and they were fined for illegal entry

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240353
11/20/2020 03:47 PM
11/20/2020 03:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 979
Northern Virginia
ecm56 Offline
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Pretty sure we were seeing one of the BVI vessel monitoring boats anchored off Great Thatch last week while we were on St. John. Not a very good photo (sorry).

Attached Files PXL_20201114_153344695_2.jpg
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: Zanshin] #240412
11/21/2020 12:13 PM
11/21/2020 12:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,296
Colorado and Sailing the World
Maria_and_Steve Offline
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The wife/SO of the captain is Peggy Gregory. She is on FB and confirmed the incident. She went on to explain that the captain will be forthcoming with more information: "We will be giving facts to reliable sources ", she stated.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240422
11/21/2020 02:36 PM
11/21/2020 02:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,496
Grenada
Zanshin Online content
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Grenada
I've had a friend note that they might have been snorkeling in the Indians prior to getting stopped - might that be true?


[Linked Image]
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240426
11/21/2020 03:05 PM
11/21/2020 03:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,994
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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If they stopped at the Indians they legally must clear customs.
G

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: GeorgeC1] #240430
11/21/2020 03:22 PM
11/21/2020 03:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,647
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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Originally Posted by GeorgeC1
If they stopped at the Indians they legally must clear customs.
G

Which is not currently possible. A big fine, but a stupid move, if true.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240433
11/21/2020 05:01 PM
11/21/2020 05:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,347
USVI
LocalSailor Offline
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Exclusion Zone -- tough channel at Mary Pt /Narrows/ Great Thatch

https://bvi.gov.vg/sites/default/fi...vised_not_to_sail_in_exclusion_zone.jpeg

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240437
11/21/2020 06:58 PM
11/21/2020 06:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,151
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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Ontario, Canada
The owner of the vessel advised that they were not snorkeling over by the Indians.


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240452
11/22/2020 02:13 AM
11/22/2020 02:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,496
Grenada
Zanshin Online content
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That would explain the fines - a vessel entering the exclusion zone on the BVI side of the water border. I don't see any sunset date on that exclusion zone, but certainly hope that it will be rescinded on December 1st when the BVI opens up again.


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Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240460
11/22/2020 09:26 AM
11/22/2020 09:26 AM
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GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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I don’t think a exclusion zone is legal unless they drop out of the international agreements they have signed or they are taking direction from North Korea!

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240464
11/22/2020 10:03 AM
11/22/2020 10:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,496
Grenada
Zanshin Online content
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Zanshin  Online Content
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Grenada
Looking into maritime law precedents there are cases to be made both for, and against, exclusion zones. see such references as https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1666&context=ils

Most likely the BVI's zone will be upheld - but I personally feel that they might have won a battle but doomed their war to failure.


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Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240465
11/22/2020 10:06 AM
11/22/2020 10:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,148
road town
sleepychef Offline
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The exclusion zone was set up to stop illegal entry and even BVI boats need permission to visit JVD using the direct route. If they were inside that zone then they were well inside BVI waters.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: sleepychef] #240469
11/22/2020 10:46 AM
11/22/2020 10:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,421
New Jersey, USA
DanS Offline
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Here's a description of the exclusion zone: https://bvi.org.uk/boaters-advised-not-to-sail-in-exclusion-zone/

I suspect it has a typo. It says, "The exclusion zone is an area west of 64*38.300’W on the south side of Tortola." That longitude is about at Nanny Cay, and it would make a lot more sense for the zone to be east of that point. And in that case, the exclusion zone would not include the narrow area around Great Thatch, Little Thatch, and Frenchman's Cay.

Dan cheers

Edited to add: OK, based on the posts below, please ignore this one: smile

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240471
11/22/2020 10:55 AM
11/22/2020 10:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,647
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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The purpose of the exclusion zone is to prevent smuggling from the USVI into the BVI. So, as I understand it, they do not want unauthorized boats in the waters between St. John, St. Thomas and Tortola or the western islands.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240472
11/22/2020 11:02 AM
11/22/2020 11:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,148
road town
sleepychef Offline
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road town
Not a typo that is where the exclusion zone is you need permission to sail out of Nanny Cay directly towards JVD

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240507
11/23/2020 09:06 AM
11/23/2020 09:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,496
Grenada
Zanshin Online content
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Grenada
Any updates if the fines and impound of the yacht were due to entering the exclusion zone or for other reasons?


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Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: Zanshin] #240526
11/23/2020 10:19 AM
11/23/2020 10:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 192
WI. St. Thomas
TomSW Offline
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WI. St. Thomas
BE CAREFUL OUT THERE
After delivering an Outbound 46 from Newport, RI to St Thomas last week, the owner Kevin Gregory, crew Andrew Dunbar, and myself went for a day sail to ease into society after nine days at sea. On Wednesday (Nov. 18), we were heading to Francis Bay, St John, USVI when we unwittingly sailed two miles beyond the US border, into BVI waters.

Within minutes a black hulled POLICE RIB pulls along and tells us to “stop the boat.” After brief questioning, the officer phoned his superiors, completes the call, requests our passports and ships documents, and escorts us to West End, BVI for processing.

While powering in, Kevin, a St Thomas resident was busily phoning attorneys and references to defend our case. Upon arrival at the customs dock, charges were filed for failure to report in upon entry to BVI water and failure to submit paperwork within 12 hours.

The essence here is that we weren’t intending to clear into BVI because our ultimate destination was a US harbor. However, after 27 hours and a $20,000 fine, we were released. Kevin was not allowed to take an exception before signing the admission of guilt.

Before we left, the BVI police brought in a US flagged 45’ yawl with two elderly couples, presumably for similar treatment, eventually escorting them to Road Harbour for processing. This is a money grab, be careful out there.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240531
11/23/2020 11:22 AM
11/23/2020 11:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 520
Bay Area
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Husker Offline
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So basically the waters east of St. John and west of the exclusion "boarder" from the west end of Norman to Nanny Cay are a no fly zone for any boats? Certainly boats coming from USVI as described by TomSW. What about BVI-cleared boats transiting from, say, Road Town to JVD via Thatch Island Cut?

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240533
11/23/2020 11:32 AM
11/23/2020 11:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,148
road town
sleepychef Offline
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road town
Permission needed from Customs for BVI boats or else take the long way around

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240535
11/23/2020 11:40 AM
11/23/2020 11:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,496
Grenada
Zanshin Online content
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Grenada
I hope that this exclusion zone will be dropped upon the re-opening on December 1st!


[Linked Image]
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240548
11/23/2020 01:11 PM
11/23/2020 01:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,266
Vero Beach, Fl and South Sound...
tpcook Offline
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Vero Beach, Fl and South Sound...
BVI Love!!


tpcook
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240549
11/23/2020 01:13 PM
11/23/2020 01:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 297
ORIENTAL,NC
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DaveZ Offline
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Given these heavy handed tactics sailors who are truly transiting should be ready to keep sailing and immediately call the USCG. Better to run for US waters and deal with USCG/CBP than these thugs. Just another reason to re-think BVI as a chartering destination.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: Maria_and_Steve] #240555
11/23/2020 02:05 PM
11/23/2020 02:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,480
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Maria and Steve--Looks to be exactly the same thing posted by TomSW here in this thread, earlier today..


Carol Hill
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: Carol_Hill] #240558
11/23/2020 02:31 PM
11/23/2020 02:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,296
Colorado and Sailing the World
Maria_and_Steve Offline
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Colorado and Sailing the World
Sorry, missed that post.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240559
11/23/2020 02:37 PM
11/23/2020 02:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 192
WI. St. Thomas
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For the record, I was not the guy on the boat. I just re-posted what he wrote.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240560
11/23/2020 02:39 PM
11/23/2020 02:39 PM
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Posts: 3,359
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
JasonHelmbrecht Offline
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2 miles is a pretty big "mistake" if you know the borders are closed.


JasonHelmbrecht
Coconut Breeze Villas
Cane Garden Bay
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www.coconutbreezevillas.com
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: TomSW] #240563
11/23/2020 02:57 PM
11/23/2020 02:57 PM
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Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Tom--thanks for the clarification.


Carol Hill
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: Maria_and_Steve] #240564
11/23/2020 02:58 PM
11/23/2020 02:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,480
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Maria and Steve--no problem, I just re-read your post a couple of times, trying to figure out if it was different.


Carol Hill
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: JasonHelmbrecht] #240567
11/23/2020 03:45 PM
11/23/2020 03:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,493
VIRGINIA
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Just read through this thread and Jason I agree "2 miles" is quite a distance with local knowledge (St Thomas owner). The author of the email might have been guestimating distance from the shoreline of St John? or actual border? Leinster Bay is 2nm from West End. I'm curious where the boat was approached. Either way, when people get jammed up like this do the stiff penalties usually get reduced? Unfortunate incident just sailing around.

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