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EIS to Miami nonstop with a stop in SJU #312843
01/31/2024 05:16 PM
01/31/2024 05:16 PM
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ggffrr11 Offline OP
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Friends flew AA non-stop from EIS to Miami last week. Plane stopped for petrol in SJU and made their connection for their following flight in Miami "a bit stressful". Is this a common occurrence? What is a safe connection time through Miami? thx, rrs

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Re: EIS to Miami nonstop with a stop in SJU [Re: ggffrr11] #312844
01/31/2024 05:17 PM
01/31/2024 05:17 PM
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Tortola/ Sonoma, California
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Thats why I fly to STT and ferry..its not a nonstop wiuth a gas stop...

Re: EIS to Miami nonstop with a stop in SJU [Re: ggffrr11] #312848
01/31/2024 05:53 PM
01/31/2024 05:53 PM
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The aircraft they are using is marginal to get to MIA. You did not state the actual date but it might have been the day the wind shifted out of the south or the Florida weather might have required an alternate further North. Overall the flight has operated better than I expected it would. Things improved quite a bit when they limited it to 60 passengers.

Re: EIS to Miami nonstop with a stop in SJU [Re: ggffrr11] #312865
01/31/2024 09:13 PM
01/31/2024 09:13 PM
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between the Purcells and the R...
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between the Purcells and the R...
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Re: EIS to Miami nonstop with a stop in SJU [Re: ggffrr11] #312936
02/02/2024 11:48 AM
02/02/2024 11:48 AM
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So AA can come from Mia to EIS fully loaded but load is limited on the return flight out of eis So 60 passengers instead of 76.


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Re: EIS to Miami nonstop with a stop in SJU [Re: ggffrr11] #312962
02/02/2024 04:37 PM
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Currently on the MIA to EIS the first flight is limited to 60 seats. The 2 later flights are limited to 64 seats. Might be expecting a better headwind later in the day. Outbound from EIS all 3 flights are limited to 60 seats.

Re: EIS to Miami nonstop with a stop in SJU [Re: ggffrr11] #312966
02/02/2024 05:01 PM
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We are taking this flight in June (both ways). George, does the reduced capacity eliminate the risk of a flight cancelation if there is a crosswind? I seem to recall that a few flights were canceled last year with a south wind. Thank you!

Re: EIS to Miami nonstop with a stop in SJU [Re: tpcook] #312969
02/02/2024 06:02 PM
02/02/2024 06:02 PM
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Have you ever calculated the takeoff performance for a jet for a 4646ft runway (EIS) compared to multiple 8600-13,000ft runways (MIA)? Some major factors that can negatively contribute to aircraft take off performance are its hot, heavy airplane, high altitude, high humidity, and others, as well as the wind not being right down the runway (headwind improves performance and shortens the takeoff roll). Having up to 13,016ft of available runway in Miami is very different than 4646ft in the BVi.

As a pilot for 39 yrs (11 US Navy, 30yrs at my airline and current B777 Capt/instructor/evaluator), I’m glad they are cautious. Of course, YMMV. 😉

Last edited by SV Absolutely; 02/02/2024 06:08 PM.

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Re: EIS to Miami nonstop with a stop in SJU [Re: ggffrr11] #312970
02/02/2024 06:10 PM
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The 60 day flight history for one of the three flights shows 4 diverts. Handled correctly and the delay should be minimal. No more than 40 minutes and depending on winds as few as 20. Certainly far more reliable than any of the EIS to SJU options. There is only one current aircraft available the A220-100 that could use EIS with excellent reliability. Delta is the only airline operating that aircraft and so far they have shown no interest in operating the route. Perhaps Americans tremendous success with the route might change their mind. Here is a letter I wrote to their network personel.


I know that network and marketing are sometimes not very receptive at Delta to outside input but I wondered what might be the best method to attempt to convince them to look into a specific route. The route in question would be ATL to EIS (British Virgin Islands). It is a route only Delta can serve because of the unique capabilities of the A220-100. The BVI tourists industry is booming. The market was once reasonably well served with American providing 250 to 370 seats a day via SJU. With the pullout of American Eagle from SJU the market became more restrictive and the fares increased. Options for travel are play roulette with a connection out of SJU or ferry from STT. Cape Air, Silver or Intercaribbean being the flight options at extremely high fares running from 1000 at the low end up to 2400 at the high end for coach from the US with a very high cancelation rate or fly to STT and ferry. Both the ferry option and connection through SJU are proving so unpopular that travelers are paying inordinate amounts of money to book private air charters from SJU or private water taxi’s from ST Thomas. These charters can be thousands of dollars for a group of 4 to 10 people.
To provide additional background the BVI is not a destination for bargain hunters trying to fly to all inclusive resorts at low rates. The primary industry is Charter Boats. There are 800 plus charter boats based in the BVI with a 50% occupancy rate. Each boat probably averages 6 people onboard. These boats charter for 3000 to 50,000 a week with the average price probably in the 12,000 to 20,000 range. The secondary industry is Boutique resorts at high rates. In addition there are a large number of private boats owned by US citizens based in the BVI as well as Villas. These are very high net worth individuals who Delta might pull over to our FF program with this route. There are also a significant number of Europeans who travel the route and might choose to connect in ATL. The convenience of a direct flight from ATL to the British Virgin Islands would command a significant revenue premium over current very high travel costs to get there.
In addition to the above the BVI government has been actively seeking non stop service from the US. They are in talks with airlines to try and provide service non stop to South Florida. The problem again is the runway length in EIS at 4650 feet won’t support most aircraft on a non stop to the US. The BVI government spent 7 million dollars trying to help a startup airline fly the route with the Avro RJ85. The startup failed without any flights. Currently I understand they are willing to subsidize new service non stop from the US. I don’t however believe they are aware that Delta has an aircraft that can do it from ATL and I understand they have not approached us. This is they type of route the A220-100 is perfect for. Perhaps some of our A220 pilots can comment but I believe the aircraft can fly from 4650 feet on the 1500 mile flight to ATL based on performance charts and given the prevailing 10 to 20 knot tradewinds.
In summary I think this would be a great route for Delta with high yields and the potential to bring high income individuals over to Delta. ATL would offer a 1 stop connection into the British Virgin Islands for most US locations. In addition Delta could partner with the numerous charter companies in the BVI like the Moorings/Sunsail, Dream Yacht Charters, BVI yachts charters ect. on charter airfare packages. It might also be possible to get a startup subsidy from the BVI government. It could also easily be flown as a turn minimizing layover costs. Can this be forwarded to the appropriate individuals to at least take a look at?

Last edited by GeorgeC1; 02/02/2024 06:17 PM.
Re: EIS to Miami nonstop with a stop in SJU [Re: ggffrr11] #312976
02/02/2024 07:10 PM
02/02/2024 07:10 PM
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George, as someone dependent on DTW, that would be a dream……….

Last edited by MIDiver; 02/02/2024 07:10 PM.
Re: EIS to Miami nonstop with a stop in SJU [Re: ggffrr11] #313032
02/04/2024 12:31 PM
02/04/2024 12:31 PM
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George - Great letter! When did you send it and have you had any response? How awesome would it be to have NS options from either MIA or ATL to EIS? I'm sure the ferry operators are not in favor, but I doubt they have any say in the matter. STT would lose traffic, but that airport is way too small for the number of flights it currently services. Really seems like a no-brainer for Delta for all the many reasons you identify in your letter.

So nice to have an airline industry SME on TTOL! Cheers.

Re: EIS to Miami nonstop with a stop in SJU [Re: ggffrr11] #313048
02/04/2024 06:35 PM
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Honestly they showed no interest. When American started the route several months later I revisited it and was basically told AA would be out of the route in 6 months. Instead they have Tripled capacity and judging by the prices and loads I see the yields are fantastic. Delta is the only US airline operating the A220-100. The aircraft was designed for long haul off short runways. They could likely have also served the NY/Boston market non stop. One of the advertising points for the aircraft was it could serve the London City Airport. That’s a 4950 foot runway however only 4000 can be used for takeoff. EIS is 4650 with all of it available. Here is an Airbus comment.

Airbus provided Aircraft Analytics with caveated data specifying that, in certain conditions with certain operating assumptions in place, an A220-100 configured in a two-class configuration with 116 seats could operate sectors of up to 2,000nm from LCY

Delta’s aircraft are configured with 109 seats. That combined with the extra 650 feet of runway should easily let it serve markets up to 2000 miles with a full load. It’s also much quieter than the E175 American uses.

Last edited by GeorgeC1; 02/04/2024 06:53 PM.
Re: EIS to Miami nonstop with a stop in SJU [Re: ggffrr11] #313049
02/04/2024 06:50 PM
02/04/2024 06:50 PM
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We took it down in December, as have some of our neighbors. It changed the trip from three flights to two flights, with no ferry or overnight. We've already booked for December.

Re: EIS to Miami nonstop with a stop in SJU [Re: GeorgeC1] #313073
02/05/2024 01:53 PM
02/05/2024 01:53 PM
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George - What else can we do to get in front of Delta?

This would be a gamechanger in my mind for the BVI. And a perfect alternative to the proposed/probably never going to actually happen runway expansion


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