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For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios #43220
03/03/2015 02:29 PM
03/03/2015 02:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 397
Colorado
stormster Offline OP
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stormster  Offline OP
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Just for a fun discussion on a snowy day ...

What do you tell your crew to do if you go overboard, assuming you are the skipper and nobody else knows how to sail?

I was thinking of this because someone posted that they always wear a life jacket because they figure if they go overboard it might be a while before the crew figured out how to get to them.

My partner (who is good with boats and by now has a pretty good understanding of sailing) says he'd either:
a) turn into the wind and drop the sails and then come get me OR
b) turn into the wind, get in the dinghy and come get me

Since we always have other people on board, I think (b) could work. Ideally though, he'd stay with the yacht and send a less experienced crew member on the dinghy. Then he could put the sails down and come rescue us both, if needed. (By day 2, all of our crew knows how to operate the dinghy.) It makes me nervous though because now you have 3 independent bodies: you, the dingy and the yacht.

Ideally you would:

(c) practice man overboard with your crew until they understand wind direction and sails enough to be able to come back to get you without needing to jibe.

(I always go over man overboard but I don't usually stress what should happen if I go over ...)

So, if you too are wishing you were sailing instead of watching snow outside the window, what would you do? Or what do you do?

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Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: stormster] #43221
03/03/2015 04:23 PM
03/03/2015 04:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 252
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jboothe Offline
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I chartered with my wife last year and she had no sailing experience and very little boating experience. I taught her how to start up and operate the boat with the engine, how to release the sheets and main halyard, how to use the radio and a briefing on what to do if I went over. Her directions were to throw a flotation object in the water immediately, release the dinghy, start the engine (not put it in gear unless required), turn in to the wind and release the sheets and halyards. Theoretically, I would swim over to the dinghy, get in, start it up and come get her.

If for some reason I got knocked out when I went over I was dead. In that case she then would use the radio and call VISAR. Go home and call the life insurance company…

Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: stormster] #43222
03/03/2015 04:37 PM
03/03/2015 04:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 277
Massachusetts USA
tmsxmsails Offline
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tmsxmsails  Offline
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Massachusetts USA
I had this discussion with my wife recently. I told her if I went overboard, she should do the following.

1. Throw the horseshoe over the side - preferably towards me but at least get is in the water for me to swim to.

2. Luff the sails.

3. See if she can communicate with me. If I'm able, I could probably swim to the luffing boat and hopefully get back on board. If I'm knocked out or otherwise hurt, she'd have to come get me.

4. If she has to come get me, turn on the engine and try to circle downwind of me. Try to get relatively close without running me over.

At this point, I'm not sure what to do. If I can't get on board by myself, I don't really know if she would be able to maneuver the boat to be able to pick me up. Maybe she could throw me a line or drag one behind the boat and try to circle me so I could grab it?

This is actually a hard conversation to have with her because she doesn't like thinking about it and kind of shuts down on the whole idea. She's a trooper though and knows we need to think about it.

I think on our next trip at some point I'm just going to say "I'm overboard" and see what she does - and then review of course.

Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: tmsxmsails] #43223
03/03/2015 04:45 PM
03/03/2015 04:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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Quote
tmsxmsails said:
This is actually a hard conversation to have with her because she doesn't like thinking about it and kind of shuts down on the whole idea. She's a trooper though and knows we need to think about it. =


Better to put a lot of thought into it and know exactly what to do then have it happen and have no clue.


Matt
Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: tmsxmsails] #43224
03/03/2015 05:44 PM
03/03/2015 05:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,228
Somewhere out there
kneafseym Offline
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If I went overboard and wasn't dead, my wife knows enough to fire the engine, luff the sails, maneuver around back to my position and hit me to makes sure I was dead then call insurance company.

On a serious note. Most horseshoes are clipped onto the boat and not easy to unhook. Just throw something that floats, a cooler lid, seat cushion. When dinghy sailing they teach going to beam reach, luffing and sailing back.

I can't count how many hat overboard I have done, I just fire the engines, rotate around then turn again to come upwind and recover off the stern. Pretty easy stuff, rarely do I even luff. Luffing can create its own issue with sheets flogging in the wind.

Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: kneafseym] #43225
03/03/2015 06:14 PM
03/03/2015 06:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 481
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706jim Offline
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Things can go from "Woo Hoo" to "Oh hell" only too quickly.

My first thought is that the skipper should be wearing a pfd, even an inflatable type.

An inexperienced crew member driving the boat towards a swimmer worries me because of the possibilty of getting tangled up in a rotating propeller.

While nobody has mentioned it yet, if the skipper is safely floating, there are many other boats around that could possibly help rescue him if called on the VHF.

But this is a really valuable thread for me, a very poor swimmer (and) the skipper.

Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: maytrix] #43226
03/03/2015 06:23 PM
03/03/2015 06:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
beerMe Offline
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Plan A: I'm conscious, keep me in sight, release the sheets, start engine, disengage autopilot and circle downwind. I will swim to boat when close enough.

Plan B: I'm unconscious, keep me in sight, release the sheets start engine, disengage autopilot and circle downwind while calling mayday on handheld. When close bring dingy to me and try to keep head above water. Attempt to put arms thru underarms, clasp hands together and use knees to pull into dingy.

I figure on > 95% for plan A and < 50% for plan B unless conditions are rough. When we're in rough conditions I always hook in and wear my harness. If I was unconscious I figure I'll at least make it easy for them to find the body.

It is incredibly difficult to rescue an unconscious person.

Had a friend fall off his sailboat. It took the people on the boat about 45 minutes to get back. He said he tried all the survival skills he knew (relax and float, fill pants with air and tie knots in legs - that didn't work so well). Finally he found a loose crab pot float which he says probably saved his life.


Life involves risks, take some prudent ones (NOT with the BVI ferries)!
Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: kneafseym] #43227
03/03/2015 06:25 PM
03/03/2015 06:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,618
Oakville, Canada
CanadianGirrrl Offline
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Oakville, Canada
as a power boater, (yeah I know...), it was our first time with just the 2 of us and i'm in charge of picking up the mooring ball, so we're in sprat, I miss the ball and drop the boat hook in the bay, i start panicking not knowing we have another and not knowing they float, and mr cool jeans calmly turns the boat around past the boat hook, sits tight for a bit and low and behold, the hook comes to me standing on the swim platform, after that trip, we decided to take power squadron, for hubby it was a refresher and he was surprised how much he'd forgotten, and for me, a whole lot of great learning, including knowing what equipment is onboard, how to use basic equipment, how to use the radio, how to retrieve my husband if he's overboard or overboard and deceased (opinions vary on this one), i feel very comfortable driving our 42ft express cruiser in lake ontario for the last five years. if you haven't shared this stuff with the others on your boat, you're setting yourself up for a bad turn, better to know and not need it than have something happen and not know what to do - just saying....


"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain
Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: 706jim] #43228
03/03/2015 06:27 PM
03/03/2015 06:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 397
Colorado
stormster Offline OP
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stormster  Offline OP
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Colorado
I'm a pretty strong swimmer and I don't think it would be easy to swim back to the boat even if the sails were luffing, especially if you were in a place with a lot of current and wind. The wind would push the boat much differently than it would push the swimmer. And the current would also affect the swimmer and the boat differently. I think you'd want some way to move the boat towards the swimmer. But then again, as the swimmer, you'd probably be highly motivated to swim hard!

I also agree that calling for help on the VHF is probably a good first step if the person in charge is uncomfortable with any part of the process. If someone was unconscious in the water, I'd immediately call for help. By myself, I don't know if I could get an unconscious adult even into the dinghy.

Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: kneafseym] #43229
03/03/2015 06:30 PM
03/03/2015 06:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
beerMe Offline
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Quote
If I went overboard and wasn't dead, my wife knows enough to fire the engine, luff the sails, maneuver around back to my position and hit me to makes sure I was dead then call insurance company.


Thanks for that!


Life involves risks, take some prudent ones (NOT with the BVI ferries)!
Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: stormster] #43230
03/03/2015 08:42 PM
03/03/2015 08:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 109
SailOrion Offline
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First off ... I think Stormster should be commended for raising this topic ... the MOB drill is something every crew MUST discuss. The USCG instructions state the first step is to throw a life ring to the victim, followed immediately by assigning somebody to locate the person in the water and NEVER take their eyes off of them. Next comes the part where somebody has to take control of the helm and initiate a retrieval turn. If the Skipper is the only person aboard who is competent in doing this and they go over-board, that is a bad situation for sure. You simply must have a 1st Mate with basic skills and a level head.

BTW ... my brother-in-law told me how he once fell off the starboard side of a catamaran he was chartering in the BVI and he grabbed the dinghy painter as it went by and pulled himself back to the boat ... and now he wants to charter my boat ;-)

Thanks again Stormster ... I hope all charter crews give MOB some thought.

- Mark

Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: SailOrion] #43231
03/03/2015 08:57 PM
03/03/2015 08:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind Offline
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One important factor is your GPS position. There is a story in "It's Your Boat Too" about a wife whose husband had a heart attack and she calls VHF 16. Coast Guard asked her coordinates and she began to describe the scenery around her, i.e house with red roof.... true story.
Another thought is the conditions that would precipitate a man overboard. If your are in big sea and wind, do not release your dinghy. You may never find it again. Generally, going overboard does not happen in calm seas.
SailLOrion has the absolutely correct procedures.

Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: sail2wind] #43232
03/03/2015 09:09 PM
03/03/2015 09:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 252
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jboothe Offline
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Quote
sail2wind said:
One important factor is your GPS position. There is a story in "It's Your Boat Too" about a wife whose husband had a heart attack and she calls VHF 16. Coast Guard asked her coordinates and she began to describe the scenery around her, i.e house with red roof.... true story.
Another thought is the conditions that would precipitate a man overboard. If your are in big sea and wind, do not release your dinghy. You may never find it again. Generally, going overboard does not happen in calm seas.
SailLOrion has the absolutely correct procedures.


Just my thoughts but if you're in big seas and you release the dinghy near where the person fell overboard and you can't find the dinghy, you're not finding the person that fell overboard either so the dinghy is the least of you're problems.

Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: jboothe] #43233
03/03/2015 09:12 PM
03/03/2015 09:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind Offline
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sorry, your thinking backwards, find the man overboard and throw him or her a life ring, it the MOB button on your GPS or chart plotter, and do not take your eyes off the person. F the dinghy

Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: sail2wind] #43234
03/03/2015 09:35 PM
03/03/2015 09:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 51
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Sailbum Offline
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This is a great topic and one that deserves thought and practice. Different procedures will work better on some boats than others and conditions will also make a difference.

In many cases counting on a person to try and swim back to the boat is a bad idea (as Stormster mentioned the wind and current will effect boat and swimmer differently) the only thing worse than a person in the water is an exhausted person in the water. Most people will underestimate distance and effort required to swim back to the boat.

I also agree with sail2wind that cutting the dinghy loose is a bad idea. The chances of the COB catching the dinghy are remote. On the other hand circling a COB with a dinghy trailing the boat vastly increases the likelihood of snagging the COB (like a water skier) much safer than a novice trying to maneuver a large unfamiliar and very hard vessel close to a person in the water.

And if conditions are rough I would rather grab a soft dinghy and climb up on it than try to climb on the transom of a large cat moving up and down in large swells. Yes a dinghy can be hard to climb into but if you've conserved energy you may well make it and even if not, you can hang on while someone from the boat pulls you in.

And of course, throw something that floats, keep your eye on the prize, know how to use the radio and gps.

Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: sail2wind] #43235
03/03/2015 09:47 PM
03/03/2015 09:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,450
Napa, California
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Teammac Offline
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I am rather taken back by the responses to this topic. In my US Sailing classes, taken on SF Bay some years ago, to pass the class you had to demonstrate the ability to make a MOB retrieval maneuver and by no means did it include starting an engine! Its a sail boat people and hey, the motor may not start, then what you gonna do? If you are going to call yourselves sailors then learn to sail. Oh yes and BTW, you had to demonstrate the ability to navigate without the use of GPS!!!


It's not what you've got, it's what you give, it's not the life you choose, it's the life you live.
Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: Teammac] #43236
03/04/2015 01:39 AM
03/04/2015 01:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
beerMe Offline
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Teammac,

The basic premiss was that only one person on the boat knows how to sail and they are the MOB. My wife has picked me up hundreds of time while skiing in a power boat so I'd rather take my chances with the engine. In any case I would prefer they use any means available.


Life involves risks, take some prudent ones (NOT with the BVI ferries)!
Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: beerMe] #43237
03/04/2015 02:51 AM
03/04/2015 02:51 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,429
Villa Euphoria Leverick Bay, P...
mdoyle9999 Offline
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My Coast Guard course taught us to keep it simple. If I fall overboard, my wife will release the sails and let me swim to the boat.


Mike
"The journey is the thing." Homer
Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: beerMe] #43238
03/04/2015 09:35 AM
03/04/2015 09:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 277
Massachusetts USA
tmsxmsails Offline
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Massachusetts USA
Quote
beerMe said:
Teammac,

The basic premiss was that only one person on the boat knows how to sail and they are the MOB. My wife has picked me up hundreds of time while skiing in a power boat so I'd rather take my chances with the engine. In any case I would prefer they use any means available.


Agreed. My wife would not be able to single-hand a 43 ft. sailboat (in presumably difficult weather) but I know she can drive the boat on engine power. If you go overboard *and* have an engine failure, now we're talking multiple concurrent "failures" and the combinations become much, much more complex. Not that you shouldn't consider them but it becomes almost overwhelming to a "non-sailor". Keep it simple to cover the most likely scenarios.

Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: mdoyle9999] #43239
03/04/2015 09:40 AM
03/04/2015 09:40 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 109
Bozeman / Minneapolis
snowdog Offline
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snowdog  Offline
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Bozeman / Minneapolis
Probably the most important topic ever discussed on this board.

Last November/December I heard 2 Mayday calls/incidents in less than 2 weeks. Both incidents were COB's. One of the calls was very scary to listen to because it was clear the person on the radio was panicked and didn't know what to do. I heard that one of the incidents resulted in a fatality.


s/v Snow Dog - Leopard 46
Re: For fun discussion: man overboard scenarios [Re: snowdog] #43240
03/04/2015 09:56 AM
03/04/2015 09:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
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StormJib Offline
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We try to do a man overboard drill shortly after leaving the dock. We add this twist. The skipper and anyone else with "deep" skills cannot be involved. Throw a life jacket or fender attached to a life jacket over. Take a seat, take notes, in silence... see if they can get you or someone else back. Slamming the boat head to wind is the best way to stop the boat...

Here is a recent video of a crew who released the sheets to stop....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK1tZljrwAc

You will all learn something if you actually execute the drill. Teaching everyone to helm the boat during the daily mooring will also be a strong learning experience for all.


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