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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: Schwendy]
#93040
04/05/2016 02:41 PM
04/05/2016 02:41 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 886 Louisville, KY
NoelHall
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Didn't an earlier post state the Moorings boats are not licensed for fishing, as required by regulation?
Noel Hall "It is humbling indeed, to discover my own opinion is only correct less than 50% of the time." www.noelhall.com
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: NoelHall]
#93042
04/05/2016 02:59 PM
04/05/2016 02:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 348 Pittsburgh, PA
Schwendy
OP
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Pittsburgh, PA
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NoelHall said: Didn't an earlier post state the Moorings boats are not licensed for fishing, as required by regulation? You're right! I just called Moorings and they (Gov't not Moorings) aren't allowing any fishing. They said the BVI Gov sprang this on everyone with no notice and they are still trying to decide what to do with their fleet. All crewed boats have been registered but no bareboats. My trip isn't until late August so hopefully things will change by then. Unbelievable.
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: Schwendy]
#93044
04/05/2016 07:17 PM
04/05/2016 07:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 770 Kansas
captmoby
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Kansas
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We have registered our boat in the past. I don't remember the exact fee but it was very reasonable, the $70 sounds about right for a one year permit for pleasure fishing.
Jim Sailmoby II
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: captmoby]
#93046
04/05/2016 07:33 PM
04/05/2016 07:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,213 GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind
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GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
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captmoby said: We have registered our boat in the past. I don't remember the exact fee but it was very reasonable, the $70 sounds about right for a one year permit for pleasure fishing. They are not talking about a permit, it a new law. The boat must be"registered to fish" whatever that means. No way it's 30K as TMM registered all their boats. I have no idea what private owners would do. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: sail2wind]
#93047
04/05/2016 08:02 PM
04/05/2016 08:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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sail2wind said:captmoby said: We have registered our boat in the past. I don't remember the exact fee but it was very reasonable, the $70 sounds about right for a one year permit for pleasure fishing. They are not talking about a permit, it a new law. The boat must be"registered to fish" whatever that means. No way it's 30K as TMM registered all their boats. I have no idea what private owners would do. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> Actually a 1997 law they never enforced or collected on when it came to charter boats of visiting yachtsmen. There is no simple cut and paste here. The registration for the boat is dependent on size and flag. I would link the forms for you but that would only get me flamed. You fill out the correct form for your boat and record you credit card number. The amount is not posted on the form. The nice government professionals will just bill you the correct amount based on the particulars of your boat. I read that as use a local law firm to register your boat properly. The original intent of the law was to go after the USVI docks, fueled, maintained, wined and dined power boats staying on St. Thomas and fishing off the BVI. Along comes 2015/16 where the BVI can no longer find the cash to pay vendor bills. So old laws will be enforced and fees raised at the same time to create >$20M. Expat Work Permits are targeted and charter/tourist boats are targeted.
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: sail2wind]
#93048
04/05/2016 08:51 PM
04/05/2016 08:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 770 Kansas
captmoby
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Kansas
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Maybe I should have called it a permit. My bad! But then maybe it a new law?
Jim Sailmoby II
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: captmoby]
#93049
04/05/2016 09:05 PM
04/05/2016 09:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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captmoby said: Maybe I should have called it a permit. My bad! But then maybe it a new law? If we want to be the vocabulary police. There are two issues with people fishing near the BVI. Any individual touching a pole or line much like the US must have their own BVI fishing license. Once you have an individual or personal fishing license only they can you fish from a boat that has taken the steps to register the actual vessel or hull as a "fishing vessel". The registration process and costs are different based on the size and flag of the vessel. As a person get you fishing licence then find a boat registered properly for you to fish from. A had personal angst with the nickle and dime confusion hard to do business with approach. I would prefer the BVI decide what they want people doing when they are on boats and bundle all of that in a single annual cruising fee for the boat.
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#93051
04/05/2016 09:43 PM
04/05/2016 09:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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1997 British Virgin Islands Fisheries Act
COMMERCIAL, SPORT AND PLEASURE FISHING requires a fishing license and the boat you are fishing from must be registered (VI Fisheries Regulations Part I & II.
from 2003 press coverage:
B.V.I. authorities seized the 38-foot Black Pearl on June 13 on the North Drop during the Virgin Islands Gamefishing Club's annual June Moon tournament. The boat owner, Scott Niddrie of St. Thomas, and its captain, Jimmy Estrasa, were later charged with fishing in B.V.I. waters without a license and registration, crimes that carry a maximum penalty of a $500,000 fine. Magistrate Gail Charles on Tuesday signed a consent order agreed to by the B.V.I. Attorney General's Office and lawyers representing Niddrie and Estrasa. Under its terms, the boat will be released after its owners pay a $15,000 cash bond to the court. Oscar Ramjeet, a lawyer representing Niddrie and Estrasa, said the money would be paid immediately so the boat could be released as soon as possible.
Old law with new or renewed plans to enforce the old law along with many others. There is stuff on new enforcement and fees each day in the BVI now. Yesterday booze and computer duties were the story.
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: StormJib]
#93052
04/06/2016 07:45 AM
04/06/2016 07:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 252
jboothe
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It appears to me that they are taking the regulations and skewing them in an effort to collect more permits and fees. The actual regulations don't actually define what is considered a "Fishing Vessel". I would think that the intent would be (and apparently has been till now) that a "Fishing Vessel" would mean a boat that is specifically and intentionally in BVI waters for the purpose of fishing. I would not think this pertains to all the charter boats. I can certainly understand their desire to "tax" both foreign and local fishing boats where their primary purpose in BVI waters to fish including sport and commercial fishing boats but I think they are stretching what the regs intended. Here is the link to the actual regulations. The fees for the boat and individual licenses are at in "Schedule 3 Fees". http://faolex.fao.org/docs/pdf/bvi140127.pdf
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: jboothe]
#93053
04/06/2016 11:34 AM
04/06/2016 11:34 AM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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Agree, The 1997 Law does not define "Fishing Vessel". There is also a 2003 revision I have never found or read. What is stated is the requirement for any "fishing license" to be attached to a registered fishing vessel.
"After a vessel has been registered or at the same time as an application is submitted for registration, an application may be submitted to the Chief Conservation and Fisheries Officer for a local fishing licence, which application shall be in Form 4 of Schedule 1.
"No local fishing licence shall be granted unless the vessel to which it relates qualifies as a local fishing vessel as defined in section 2 of the Act.""
The chicken or egg is clear in the law. First you register the boat, only then can you register(license) anyone to fish from that boat specifically including those fishing under (3) "A pleasure fishing licence shall entitle the licensee to fish for personal consumption up to a maximum of 30 pounds per boat."
Certainly not easy to do business with!
If you continue to the fee schedules that go with the "Pleasure Fishing License" it does make sense. The fees we pay for our "pleasure fishing licenses" are determined based on the size, flag, and base of the actual boat. The fees for a less than 26 foot BVI boat based in the BVI would be $45. The fees for a 45ft US Flagged boat running out of St. Thomas would be $300. The numbers are all over the chart using the three variables (size,flag,base).
I have championed for a long time for the BVI powers that be to determine what they want visitors doing on boats and then including all those activities under a single simple cruising permit fee.
Maybe as the fees and charges go up that will happen. Here is a cut and paste from a recent local press article:
“Our expectations are, that in combination with the measures taken, we are projecting total additional revenue of $26.2M,” Premier Smith announced.
"Government also plans to introduce an environmental levy and to harmonise the existing fee and tax structure for hotels and yachts. There are plans to also review and revise the current marine fees structure by consolidating existing fees and creating a collection system."
At the end of the day the BVI leadership has determined they must increase revenues that add up to $600-$900 per resident. The current approach is to pass much of that onto the boat people somehow.
Last edited by StormJib; 04/06/2016 01:28 PM.
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: StormJib]
#93055
04/06/2016 02:30 PM
04/06/2016 02:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 252
jboothe
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Posts: 252
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StormJib said: There is also a 2003 revision I have never found or read. StormJib - I think the link I posted is for the 2003 version of the regulations. I really don't mind paying some fees and permits when I feel that I am getting something out of it. But this is just a blatant effort to increase revenue that (from what I see) will not in anyway improve the product upon which the fees are being levied. It would be different if these fees were going to VISAR or a boating service or something. I could understand but that doesn't appear to be the case.
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: jboothe]
#93056
04/06/2016 03:36 PM
04/06/2016 03:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
Traveler
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Posts: 1,049
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jboothe said:StormJib said: There is also a 2003 revision I have never found or read. StormJib - I think the link I posted is for the 2003 version of the regulations. I really don't mind paying some fees and permits when I feel that I am getting something out of it. But this is just a blatant effort to increase revenue that (from what I see) will not in anyway improve the product upon which the fees are being levied. It would be different if these fees were going to VISAR or a boating service or something. I could understand but that doesn't appear to be the case. JBOOTHE I will stand corrected the doc you provide clearly has both dates. STATUTORY INSTRUMENT 2003 NO. 20 FISHERIES ACT, 1997 (No. 4 of 1997) Fisheries Regulations, 2003 [Gazetted 19th June, 2003] The Minister, in exercise of the powers conferred on him by section 79 of the Fisheries Act, 1997, makes the following Regulations:.... No one likes rising taxes or charges of any kind. In the 40 plus years I have traveled to the BVI and across the Caribbean there have clearly been investments and improvements in infrastructure. Roads, bridges, road safety, schools, hospitals and more have all improved in a unique way. Probably most important to us on the water. Potable water and greater sanitary sewage have improved. All of that costs money. Across the US we have witnessed states and local government raisings sales and property taxes to cover the ever growing need for local operating cash. The BVI and USVI are no different. In January the USVI raise the taxes to 12.5% on anything anyone sleeps in for less than 90 days. The USVI’s hotel room tax is 12.5 percent of the gross room rental, meaning it includes the gross room rate plus any additional charges such as energy surcharges and maintenance fees. "Crucially, the tax applies to every guest that resides in a hotel, villa, timeshare, inn or any other sleeping accommodation for less than 90 days." I know many wish the Caribbean would return to the 1950's. The majority of the residents have no interest in that. Time and needs more forward. That can only happen if the BVI can find greater revenue somewhere. Hopefully the yachting lobby can get their collaborative act together and get the best possible outcome for the new taxes and fees that are certainly on their way in the BVI. My push is to bundle the charges as simply as possible at the lowest total cost to everyone. If jobs must be created. Create those jobs in real maintenance and rational enforcement. Keep the moorings sound and eliminate the anchoring anywhere near sensitive areas.
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: Schwendy]
#93058
04/06/2016 05:47 PM
04/06/2016 05:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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What happens if The Moorings substitutes boats? Who is going to do this part? "Owners are responsible for having the letters and numbers detailed to their vessel conspicuously painted on the top and sides part of the vessel." I suggest something like this... http://www.dannysbonefishing.com/
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: sail2wind]
#93060
04/07/2016 07:09 AM
04/07/2016 07:09 AM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 252
jboothe
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sail2wind said: no way to compare bone fishing for $400 to trolling off the back of a boat. Good point on Moorings as the boat name is not guaranteed until you get there. Very true. They won't even give you any info on the specific boat until you get there.
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: camsbored]
#93064
04/07/2016 06:57 PM
04/07/2016 06:57 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 886 Louisville, KY
NoelHall
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Just wondering .... If a charter customer is caught fishing from a non-licensed charter boat, who gets the citation (assuming the charter customer holds a valid BVI pleasure fishing license)? Is the charter customer responsible for the boat being licensed, or is the charter company, or is it the boat owner? Many charter boats currently have a rod holder installed .... wow, what a mess. I just sent Voyage Charters an email asking for their take on the subject.
Noel Hall "It is humbling indeed, to discover my own opinion is only correct less than 50% of the time." www.noelhall.com
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: tradewinds]
#93067
04/07/2016 08:59 PM
04/07/2016 08:59 PM
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 48 FL/NC
FLMarine
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FL/NC
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tradewinds said: Seriously, for all the "butt hurtedness" about not being able to fish, speaking from experience, the fishing isnt't that great. Sure, you'll hook into something worth keeping every once in awhile, but don't let this ruin your charter. I've caught Tuna in the channel and Mahi comin around Steel Point, and a crap load of Bonito and Barracuda. I'm new here and I'm not letting this ruin my charter, but some of us take fishing a little more seriously than others. I grew up fishing inshore and offshore in southwest Florida and have fished all over the world. I just love trolling for wahoo, tuna, and mahi. Even if I don't catch one I love it. Just as some of you are as passionate about spending time in the BVI some of us are that passionate about fishing. The fishing part was a big part of me going to the BVI, though on this trip not the main part. It's frustrating, and if you don't get the fishing part don't knock the passion of others who do. That would be like me saying I don't get why you guys like sailing, it isn't that great. I'm a power boat guy, but I've done sailing. Just because I'm not passionate about sailing doesn't mean I don't understand why many people are.
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: tradewinds]
#93068
04/07/2016 09:58 PM
04/07/2016 09:58 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 886 Louisville, KY
NoelHall
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Louisville, KY
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Just received word from Voyage Charters, and they are in the process of obtaining licenses for their fleet.
Noel Hall "It is humbling indeed, to discover my own opinion is only correct less than 50% of the time." www.noelhall.com
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: NoelHall]
#93069
04/08/2016 09:07 AM
04/08/2016 09:07 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,321 Charlotte, NC
SuburbanDharma
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Charlotte, NC
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I think if fishing is your primary goal, the BVI might not be your best choice of charter location anyway. But it sounds as though the charter companies will eventually get caught up with this ridiculous law.
Edit: Is it an annual fee? I just noticed that the fee is only $110 per boat, which is really not very much as far as anything that goes into a boat! The charter companies should just charge a small additional fee to everyone who wants to fish to cover it, what's the big deal?
Last edited by SuburbanDharma; 04/08/2016 09:18 AM.
If I can't be a good example, I'll just have to be a horrible warning.
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: SuburbanDharma]
#93070
04/08/2016 10:11 AM
04/08/2016 10:11 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,953 St. John, USVI
RickG
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St. John, USVI
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We're pretty frustrated with the fishing situation in the BVI, even before the whole boat registration fiasco. Its just not very good. I called about getting our boat registered 18 months ago and was told that was just for commercial or recreational boats owned by residents. I would need to get a license for every visit. Well, half true.
We've had great success fishing between St. Thomas and Culebra and the south drop between St. Thomas and St. John has been good.
In January we ran lines one day from Anegada to Jost and tried for Kingfish Banks, but the wind and swell was a bit much. In March we didn't bother.
I love fishing and Sweet Christine loves catching. We'll have our lines out when we sail south in June.
Cheers, RickG
S/V Echoes, 2003 Beneteau 423 Grenada
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: SuburbanDharma]
#93073
04/08/2016 03:38 PM
04/08/2016 03:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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SuburbanDharma said: I think if fishing is your primary goal, the BVI might not be your best choice of charter location anyway. But it sounds as though the charter companies will eventually get caught up with this ridiculous law.
Edit: Is it an annual fee? I just noticed that the fee is only $110 per boat, which is really not very much as far as anything that goes into a boat! The charter companies should just charge a small additional fee to everyone who wants to fish to cover it, what's the big deal? The issue is a law that has been on the books since 1997 that requires each boat that does any fishing to be registered to fish in the BVI. No matter what size or how much fishing the boat must be registered if any fishing is done. The registered boat must paint numbers on top and the sides. A log of all fishing must be kept. Any registered boat for fishing can then apply for the individual fishing licences many have talked about here for years. According to the law the fishing licenses always went with the registered boat. The price of the individual fishing license is set by the size, flag, and base of the boat your license will be attached to. BOOM! comes 2016 the BVI announces they will either enforce the entire law or maybe just more of the law? At the same time the BVI announces the BVI will raise and simplify marine fees with no specific details. I can see why the large, wise, prudent operator of boats in the BVI would pause until the specific enforcement is announced. The BVI does have a sporadic history of stopping USVI boats then arresting and seizing any boats without all the paperwork. What is the going forward law and regulation and what parts will be enforced going forward against recreational and visiting yachtsman? From the Law: "Unless otherwise stated, or the context otherwise requires, all fees apply to all categories of persons and vessels, and are annual."
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Re: Fishing pole baggage question!
[Re: SuburbanDharma]
#93075
04/08/2016 11:12 PM
04/08/2016 11:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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Just as The Moorings have tried to tell owners and customers. These changes are very complex. The core is an increase in revenue the boat community will pay to own, sail, sleep on, charter, rent, visit with, and also sometimes fish on.
If you read the law if you fish on a boat that boat must be clearly marked with flag and numbers you can see from the water and air. We have US states that demand the same. The BVI did not invent this in 1997.
paint the vessels State flag in a manner that is clearlyvisible from the sea and air; (iii) display in a manner that is clearly visible fromthe sea and air the vessel's international radio call sign; and(iv) display in a manner that is clearly visible from the sea and air the number assigned to the vessel in its licence or on any regional register established under section 32 (1) (f) of the Act;
 Owners are responsible for having the letters and numbers detailed to their vessel conspicuously painted on the top and sides part of the vessel.
The large fleet operators and their lawyers more than get the risk. There will be some lobbying on both sides to settle just how much more boat owners, charter operators, and unilaterally many customers will pay more than they pay today to visit the BVI, Those numbers will settle closer to the new USVI rate of 12.5% that everyone pays to sleep on St. Thomas and St. John.
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